Real Software Forums

While I'm glad to hear there's an alternative I don't think it'd go as far as the RealSoftware devs have with some of their implementations, Correct me if I'm wrong here.

So why not just use the LLVM compiled version of GCC which is cross-platform available...so it runs on windows, Mac, and Linux...and can compile code for ios on all 3? Gcc handles debugging and could be read through an RS shell and the corresponding errors could be fed back to the IDE and the offending code could be "debugged" as normal? This also reduces framework overheads so an iOS application which should be around 400kb-3Mb won't end up being 10-20Mb? And even then gcc also comes as a precompiled library (single file) for dynamic compilations without having the overhead of the entire gcc installation...and as new iOS sdks become available, the developers of RS wouldn't have to constantly be releasing new updates since the sdk could just be updated (yes for Windows, Mac, Linux)... and apple releases a new iOS version with "major" changes every 6 months. So new features and code capabilities would be usable from real studio late just as apple releases another major update with new features...eventually they will slow down...but not anytime soon just trying to help RS out as I'm dedicated and committed to RS.. Which is one of the reasons I "moon-light" in other communities such as the open source livecode and many others...to find out how they're managing to move along so much quicker with less resources and next to no initial help building castles and oasis' in desserts over-night. (at least I've found the RS team to be more seasoned intellectually...while the other dev teams are basically a bunch of HS dropouts and college dropouts..or so they seem listening to and talking with them). What I've found is they take the quickest route (use what already is available) to get where they need to be...and then build it up from the ground up from scratch...livecode use to use gcc up until last year...and now they completed a custom compiler which relies on a special packaged version of the IOS sdk...which allows them to have an upgrade including new apple features..only an hour after apple releases them. That's amazing! Others have designed 'emulators' basically that raw text code is bound to and interpreted once on the device (using native and custom controls) and I've learned about a dozen ways to achieve the same thing..and created one myself using the mother of ios herself...objective-c...which remains out of the users view completely..kind of like having an interpreter stand between two people and relaying messages as theyre spoken in each native tongue. as "keeper" of the second largest active real studios community next to these forums, I'd like to see more people interacting and 'spreading-the-fire' perhaps with what's "behind closed doors which remains unspoken" this opportunity wil arise. I want to see people getting excited like they did with microsoft's visual basic...and I'm constantly 'persuading' people into why RS is better as a
Developer myself using over 2 dozen languages... And as
Soon as I almost have them hooked..."oh did you see this? So and so has this and this and this plus this and this ...and wow look at this." and it's always some rinky-dink little group that suddenly flourishes overnight to steal RS's glory real studio belongs at or near the top and just as they start to reach the apex..the mountain always jumps higher. We have an estimated 100,000 users...over how long? 16..17 years? Livecode..over 1 million users their first year...nme...over a million users and they're just turning 1 year old... I'm praying this year brings record astounding numbers like this to us... Let's cross fingers norm and everybody.

Back to topic...regardless, Geoff is father of my 'Bride' (real studio)...and I'm not about to disrespect the in-laws or their wishes

LiveCode 1 million users in one year? I suppose you have forgotten that LiveCode exists for quite some time (since 2001), but formerly it was called Runtime Revolution. I have a license for the missing platforms (Android and iOS), but actually dislike their 'natural' language code style.
By the way, the Kickstarter project to make LiveCode open source was a great success. It raised much more than the requested 350.000 pound. Maybe it's also an idea for Real to make a Kickstarter project for iOS support? That would allow them to hire extra engineers and speed things up.

I dislike rich companies who make a Kickstarter. Including RunRev. I don't think their problem is money; I'd guess it's just "ok, the product doesn't sell anymore; let's take some extra money".

And if Real wants some money, find new users. LiveCode got really popular when they launched a video about iOS programming in english (although RB is more english )

I'm kind of (really) excited about iOS apps, too. So, my question is - how easy will it be to move design elements to the iOS side of things?

I've got two or three projects I'd love to have on an iPad and now that that might be realistic sometimes, I want to get started building GUIs.

What size window in pixels should I use for an iPhone 5 app? An iPad mini? or a retina iPad? I'm thinking of essentially making desktops apps more or less the right size with a lot of the functionality so I'm as ready to go as possible to program on the RS iOS platform.

I know the touch and swipe will come later, but I just want to get started on these projects already.

Anyone have an educated guess on how to begin now?

If you have a mac, download XCode just for planning (I am quite sure there is planning software for windows too)

I have XCode actually and while I could design in it, I really would like to make a "half-working mock-up" in Real Studio, because I could incude a lot of my methods and controls and things. Also, I can fiddle around with a "working desktop version" as I progress to see if there is any better way to design it.

I can't do that in XCode, unfortunately.

Because we don't output C/ C++ code for such a thing to compile
And because trying to translate RB / RS Code into C++ or something platform specific would be tons more work


LiveCode is RunRev renamed - more than 1 year old by a long stretch

I know that RR is older than 1 year for sure but that really isn't the point.

I'm pretty sure RS is older the RR/LC but what really matters is the number of paid users.

1 million to 150,000 is a huge difference.

Norman, there must be good reasons why RR/LC has so many more users.

Maybe you guys at REAL should take a closer look at RR/LC and see what they're doing right ?


As an RS developer I'd love to see REAL Studio's popularity grow.

Perhaps there could be a volunteer training program like the other studios have that are trained on specifics to touch upon and go to various organizations, colleges, schools, etc and give a presentation demonstrating how it works and a well thoughtout presentation to give? I would volunteer in a heart-beat! It's one thing to advertise, another to tell about, and even better when it becomes personal...actually demonstrated before your eyes...that is one key feature of the other environments we lack in the RS community and the reason why the other environments achieve such high volumes in so little time. I would love to see
RS ignite and spread like wild-fire finally... Perhaps I could, or you (Norm) could pass such an idea along to Greg and the marketing department?

And not to refute the work that has been done...but sometimes more work at first..leads to less less work later on... The basics of programming states "Garbage in, garbage out."... Now RS is far from garbage..but we'll only get out what was put in to it... And as object classes...c code can easily be manipulated as any other object if a basic organized structure is setup to handle the objects... Heck I managed to convert 30+ objects and standard obj c if/thens, loops, numeric statement handlers, file handlers, and a whole Myriad of obj-c code into a "BASIC" code syntax in under 5 months...and the preexisting compilers handle the building and debugging...knowing very little about obj-c and the iOS sdk when I started but I cannot deny the amount of work that has been put into the studio...and must say ...thanks and great work!

RunRev acquired the old Metacard which has been around a long time - longer than Real Basic I'm quite sure.


Downloads ≠ active users or people willing to buy something.
I think we're comparing apples and elephants

I can agree that more downloads does not always lead to more sales, but we can also agree that :

Getting punched in the face does not always hurt.

Having 100 million dollars of wealth does not always make one happy.

There is hardly anything that is always one result given another possibility.

Repeatedly flip a coin 'forever' and the result will not always be heads or tails.
Sometimes it will land on the edge and be neither.

Usually more dates will lead to more sex if that is the goal.

Usually more money means more opportunities and when used wisely means more happiness.

Usually getting punched in the face hurts. Ouch.

Usually significant more downloads will lead to more sales.



Always? Well, no. But it's hard to find always in this existence when other possibilities are available.

Lots of users is usually a great thing.
But it has to turn into revenue to sustain a company otherwise they have to go to alternate means like raising money on KickStarter

As much as I know, LiveCode got popular when they launched a video about iOS development on YouTube

I first learned of Livecode, then Runtime Revolution, some 10 years ago when an old edition was given away with a magazine. Never really liked the language and preferred to pay for RealBasic instead, which has a syntax more like other languages as Java, PHP and Javascript. That makes RealBasic an easy language if you already know some things of programming. And with its OOP-capability it is a great first step to learn programming.

The addition of Android and iOS as platforms to LiveCode have however regained some of my interest. Without it, LiveCode had no reason to continue anymore I think. Most people interested in programming are already familiar with Javascript and PHP nowadays, so their peculiar syntax became a con instead of a pro. But by becoming one of the few tools to create native programs for iOS as well as Android, it has a reason to keep on going.

A similar trend can be seen at RealBasic I think. Here too most users have been Basic programmers for a long time. People learning to program now turn to XCode's Objective-C, Ruby, Java (comeback because of Android), et cetera. The inclusion of Web Edition could have made a change, but I still do not see much use for it because of the high cost, instability and requirements to the server environment (I will stick with PHP/MySQL for now). So Real might need to get its hands dirty with iOS, Android, Windows 8 RT soon to keep customers satisfied.

Once people turn to Objective-C you probably will not see them back. The number of websites and developers that first talked about RealBasic and then changed to Objective-C is growing as you will see when you look at links to third party products.