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 Post subject: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Location: Puerto Rico
Hello

I need a Good DataBase Software tools with 100% to the Data Type of RealBasic
:idea:

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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:25 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Warfordsburg, PA
How many records do you anticipate in your largest tables?

Based on my experience, the REALSQLdatabase is good for a couple thousand records in a table. If you start to go higher than that, the performance quickly goes down. Firsthand experience with Valentina shows that over 100K records in a table and the speed of accessing even a single record is lightening fast.

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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Location: Puerto Rico
ok thanks

but Valentina is like Sqlite or MySql

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my Hobbies R/C Turbines Jets Models


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 231
We are using mySQL with tens of millions of rows in a commercial application.

We are in financial services and we have a ton of joins inner joins and other complexities.

We use MySQL Workbench and Navicat And believe it or not PHP myAdmin. (Working on replacing PH my admin with a RS version of the same)

Other than a nasty bug (which Real is fixing) in mySQL plugin things work very well.
(dont set MultiThreaded=true)

For us: The use of an esoteric database like Valentina causes all sorts of grief with IT people from other companies. And quite frankly, you probably could never get it past a audit in the corporate world (Stability of vendor...)

We wish to concentrate on our core business: Not justifying our choice of tools. mySQL is know, solid and FREE.

('Yes but you use real studio" i hear you cry. That is true I choose real studio because it there is an advantage to doing so. With a SQL database No so much. )


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:21 pm
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Location: New York, NY
It might be worth the effort to try. In every benchmark test I've ever performed, Valentina crushes every SQL flavor I've compared, including MySQL. With its integration into Real Studio where you can address your tables and fields as instances of classes rather than SQL, you will speed up performance and development.

BTW, you can use Valentina Studio with a free license to create and modify your database whether it's Valentina, MySQL, SQLite, PostgreSQL, or ODBC. This might be a better choice than Navicat or Workbench.

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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Location: Puerto Rico
ok
thanks

I have PostgreSQL but I like to trait SSD Stable DataBase to see who it Go
:)

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Mac Mini with Lion v10.7.5 and Real Studio 2012r1 Pro And Windows 7 RS2012r1 Personal and Linux RS2012r1 Personal Register user
my Hobbies R/C Turbines Jets Models


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:11 pm
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Location: Guatemala, Central America
JohnV wrote:
We are using mySQL with tens of millions of rows in a commercial application.

We are in financial services and we have a ton of joins inner joins and other complexities.

We use MySQL Workbench and Navicat And believe it or not PHP myAdmin. (Working on replacing PH my admin with a RS version of the same)

Other than a nasty bug (which Real is fixing) in mySQL plugin things work very well.
(dont set MultiThreaded=true)

For us: The use of an esoteric database like Valentina causes all sorts of grief with IT people from other companies. And quite frankly, you probably could never get it past a audit in the corporate world (Stability of vendor...)

We wish to concentrate on our core business: Not justifying our choice of tools. mySQL is know, solid and FREE.

('Yes but you use real studio" i hear you cry. That is true I choose real studio because it there is an advantage to doing so. With a SQL database No so much. )


I'm not making a case for any RDB but as all things on this world, what you deploy depends on many variables.

For instance, if I was developing for a corporation I would use one of the well known databases, MySQL could very well be one of them. However, contrary to what you state, MySQL would not be free under that particular application.

If I'm developing for a small business where there is no IT department and most often than not there is no one tech savvy enough to deal with maintaining a complex database server I would choose a database that was easy to install and required no or almost no knowledge on how to do basic maintenance, probably just backup the data. In this case something like Valentina or CubeSQL would be my choice. Not because they are not capable of handling large stress but because they are simple to operate but frowned upon by IT departments.

Personally I have been looking at Studio Stable as an option for what I usually do which is develop for small businesses. I will have to work on Studio Stable to get the look and feel I want but it's something I'm willing to do. The other alternative is CubeSQL which I think is fantastic. A few days ago I tested CubeSQL, I have the free 3 connection max version so I wrote an app that would read and write to the database, installed it on 3 different computers and proceeded to bomb the server with constant read and write operations. Not a single hiccup from CubeSQL. And you can't get a simpler installation than what CubeSQL offers, not that expensive also.

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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:12 am
Posts: 102
JohnV wrote:
We are using mySQL with tens of millions of rows in a commercial application.

We are in financial services and we have a ton of joins inner joins and other complexities.

We use MySQL Workbench and Navicat And believe it or not PHP myAdmin. (Working on replacing PH my admin with a RS version of the same)

Other than a nasty bug (which Real is fixing) in mySQL plugin things work very well.
(dont set MultiThreaded=true)

For us: The use of an esoteric database like Valentina causes all sorts of grief with IT people from other companies. And quite frankly, you probably could never get it past a audit in the corporate world (Stability of vendor...)


Thank you, JonhV :-)

but Valentina DB have celebrate just only 15 years. mySQL as I know, older may be couple of years...
Where you see issue with stability? Its mySQL already was sold from one hand into another.
Its mySQL have got huge stream of away runners, mostly to SQLite and Postgre.
It is enough to look on REALbasic list to see this process during last 2-4 years. btw mainly because of license. See below.

And no need to say that mySQL can go through audit. mySQL is NOT an Enterprise standard. Many articles exists on this.
As only they have claim they want to touch the Enterprise market, they was bought fast by Oracle ...

mySQL for years on own site have claim something as
"we are very optimized for light-weight queries that are perfect for WEB".

Valentina somehow was targeted to heavy queries ... Than more was our wonder few years ago, when one of our users, on that time yet big-fan-of-RB, have port own ORM from mySQL to Valentina and reported us that his app launches few times faster. Note, app sends a lots of small queries to db on start. We have win mySQL by nature of our net-protocol... We have win even in that area where they claimed they are cool...

NOTE: to be honest, we know one area where we loose yet, but we see algs to implement to become there not worse.


JohnV wrote:
We wish to concentrate on our core business: Not justifying our choice of tools. mySQL is know, solid and FREE.

('Yes but you use real studio" i hear you cry. That is true I choose real studio because it there is an advantage to doing so. With a SQL database No so much. )


Many people of REALbasic list, already few times have discussed that mySQL is not so free as many did think. Especially for applications. This is why they have run to Postgre.

Once I have read dispute where somebody claim this is changed by Oracle ... but only once, and was not proved.
For example it is enough look on this pages on mySQL site:
http://www.mysql.com/oem/
http://www.mysql.com/products/

I remember that for deployment of a commercial APP with closed code, you need pay about 450$ per server per year.
And we know from user, that in fact mySQL team just try squeeze from you maximal amount they can... When you call them ...
Anyway all this was discussed very deeply on rb lists and forum. This is why, once again, many RB and Livecode users have run ti Lite and Postgre, which claim to be totally free for any purpose.

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Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:12 am
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HMARROQUINC wrote:
And you can't get a simpler installation than what CubeSQL offers, not that expensive also.


I just wonder, if this is not expensive
Up to 3 concurrent connections: $999/year.
Up to 5 concurrent connections: $3000/year.

than Valentina's VDN
5 connections 599$

is even less, yes?
Much less. $599 vs $3000

While VSERVER is more powerful, e.g. it have Stored Procedures, not less powerful than mysql/postgre have.

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Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:11 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Guatemala, Central America
Check out http://www.sqlabs.com/store.php

5 connections for CubeSQL is $299.

If you mean that I can deploy as many servers (for 5 connections) as I want with Valentina for $299 then I haven't read your documentation correctly.

The prices you quoted on CubeSQL are for deploying as many servers as one needs for a year.

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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:15 am
Posts: 712
Location: Southern California
My recommendation is for PostgreSQL, which is truly free/open source. It's fast, robust...a no compromise, Enterprise class database that IT departments are comfortable with.

I know and work with MySQL, but it has been years since I've recommended it apart from a stack that requires it (i.e. WordPress). Likewise with MS SQL. If I have a choice between the three, it's Postgres every time.

For RB apps that need an 'embedded' database, the built in SQLite stuff works fine. Though I should point out that given Postgres' open nature, if you wanted to you could ship an installer that installed Postgres along with your app.

I don't want to sound like I'm knocking the other options out there. I've heard nothing but good things about Valentina. It's just that all of my projects to date have pretty clearly required Postgres or nothing more than the built in DB. If your needs fall squarely on one of the other options, use them.

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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 231
Please don't misunderstand. I am not calling you unstable. I know you guys do good work.

However too many of our partner and clients need ISO / ERISA / Sarbanes Oxley levels of 'safety'.

Simply being in business for X years doesn't answer their concerns. Corporate IT wants formal perpetuation plans. Proper amount of insurance. And, adherence to "CYA" standards.

When they hear Postgres, Oracle, MySql, Microsoft SQL Server: they simply don't ask questions. Right or wrong: we don't have to address them. This is a crappy way of looking at things, but we work in a world populated by corporate IT.

We have this same problem with Realstudio/Realsoftware.

But we are willing to make the case for a small company like Real Software because we believe, and can argue, that the tool does things for us that other, more main stream tools (.NET, PHP, Ruby, WebObjects) do not. (We have in fact lost big, lucrative projects because we use RS)

As for database back ends: I don't see that advantage being worth the fight.

Sell me on some compelling reason to make the argument to our parters, and I will switch.


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:12 am
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HMARROQUINC wrote:
Check out http://www.sqlabs.com/store.php

5 connections for CubeSQL is $299.
If you mean that I can deploy as many servers (for 5 connections) as I want with Valentina for $299 then I haven't read your documentation correctly.
The prices you quoted on CubeSQL are for deploying as many servers as one needs for a year.


I have copied exactly from that store page.
Indeed you have read Valentina not correctly then. Let me explain:

1) we have Valentina Server (up to 5.0 was named Valentina Office Server).
It is sold per copy
Intended for small companies that need one copy

2) we have VDN option, which gives you Valentina Embedded Server.
You pay once and get 5-connections license of Vserver Embedded,
which you can deploy with your application unlimited number of copies.

Our VDN have other schema of adding more connections, but I should say that 80-90% users do not use them at all.

So as far as I see, with Vserver Embedded you need only 599$ to start deploy 5-connections vserver royalty free, unlimited number of copies, but with cubeSQL you need 3000$. Even with 3 connections option you need 999$.

Even better. The second year you can renew VDN only for 359$
You can see these prices in our store: http://www.valentina-db.com/en/store
in the section "Valentina Developer Network"


3) Let me correct even with CubeSQL .
I think "per year" is not very good name here.
Makes people to think that you must pay each year.
If to read text on their site, they say this means 12 month of free updates.
But you can use version which you have buy even 20 years of course.
This is more correctly name "subscription period", like do REAL Studio and Valentina products.

The same with VServer Embedded. You can pya once 599 for VServer Embedded 5.0.
And if it works okay for your application use it may be5 years without any additional payments.

_________________
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:12 am
Posts: 102
JohnV wrote:
Please don't misunderstand. I am not calling you unstable. I know you guys do good work.

...

As for database back ends: I don't see that advantage being worth the fight.

Sell me on some compelling reason to make the argument to our parters, and I will switch.


No problem, and what you say really happens in real life. We also have see this, while we have see companies which want use only MS products, and they not accept Postgre or mySQL. So not all companies are happy with that also. They have right do that :-)

----
If talk as developer to developer not counting to managers, then ask me why me was not happy 20 years ago with relational model, and why I have start develop object-relational db.

When I did start, I have write on paper:
I ant make more smart db, so I can expect it will be little slower ...

Surprise was it becomes faster in many things. But speed is side-effect.

If you never have read about Valentina features yet, I will recommend to read first of all about Valentina Links.
http://www.valentina-db.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=valentina:vcomponents:vkernel:vlink:vlink

My vision is that relational model is like assembler or, in the best case, the "C" language, comparing to C++.
I prefer do coding using C++ :-)

I want to write less lines in SQL queries to make DB understand me.

_________________
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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 Post subject: Re: i need a good DataBase tools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 3
What does the VDN option include? Does it come with the RB development kit? Its not totally clear on the website what is all included with that.

Phil


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