Real Software Forums

The forum for Real Studio and other Real Software products.
[ REAL Software Website | Board Index ]
It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:24 pm
xojo

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:50 am
Posts: 122
HMARROQUINC wrote:
Zack.H wrote:
Hate to be a hater,
but I'm not an iOS user nor do I care to develop for it so it's not really that exciting for me.

If it was Android development in RealStudio, I'd probably be a bit more excited as I have 2 android tablets and a Galaxy S 3.


Have you checked basic4android? I have been playing with it. At least one gets to stay with the BASIC language.


While I'm glad to hear there's an alternative I don't think it'd go as far as the RealSoftware devs have with some of their implementations, Correct me if I'm wrong here.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:10 am
Posts: 1086
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
npalardy wrote:
simulanics wrote:
So the project was completed and 'perfected' by the 5th month...yet RS has been working on their release for nearly 5 years...6...7 years?

iOS ?
It will be about 12 mos by the time conference rolls around

simulanics wrote:
I think it's great that they're trying to develop proprietary compilation methods for software...but this has already left them slightly behind schedule...some newer companies which have only existed for under a year have already created cross-platform software development environments for not only Windows, Mac, Linux, and the web...but Android, iOS, Blackberry, Symbian, ARM-compatible platforms...and a whole myriad...solely because they didn't 're-invent' wheels first..but used the wheels that were already in place with custom front-ends to get them where they are...then have slowly 'upgraded' to new wheels...

Actually we have the reverse issue
We already HAVE an existing compiler that we wrote years ago (pre 2005- which is the second one) as at the time there really were no tool kits like LLVM around to write a compiler with.
Now there are & we're moving our code base to a completely new compiler back end based on LLVM (64 bit etc)
It's easy to move fast when you have no pre-existing customers to worry about breaking their code.
We don't have that luxury.


So why not just use the LLVM compiled version of GCC which is cross-platform available...so it runs on windows, Mac, and Linux...and can compile code for ios on all 3? Gcc handles debugging and could be read through an RS shell and the corresponding errors could be fed back to the IDE and the offending code could be "debugged" as normal? This also reduces framework overheads so an iOS application which should be around 400kb-3Mb won't end up being 10-20Mb? And even then gcc also comes as a precompiled library (single file) for dynamic compilations without having the overhead of the entire gcc installation...and as new iOS sdks become available, the developers of RS wouldn't have to constantly be releasing new updates since the sdk could just be updated (yes for Windows, Mac, Linux)... and apple releases a new iOS version with "major" changes every 6 months. So new features and code capabilities would be usable from real studio late just as apple releases another major update with new features...eventually they will slow down...but not anytime soon :-( just trying to help RS out as I'm dedicated and committed to RS.. Which is one of the reasons I "moon-light" in other communities such as the open source livecode and many others...to find out how they're managing to move along so much quicker with less resources and next to no initial help building castles and oasis' in desserts over-night. (at least I've found the RS team to be more seasoned intellectually...while the other dev teams are basically a bunch of HS dropouts and college dropouts..or so they seem listening to and talking with them). What I've found is they take the quickest route (use what already is available) to get where they need to be...and then build it up from the ground up from scratch...livecode use to use gcc up until last year...and now they completed a custom compiler which relies on a special packaged version of the IOS sdk...which allows them to have an upgrade including new apple features..only an hour after apple releases them. That's amazing! Others have designed 'emulators' basically that raw text code is bound to and interpreted once on the device (using native and custom controls) and I've learned about a dozen ways to achieve the same thing..and created one myself using the mother of ios herself...objective-c...which remains out of the users view completely..kind of like having an interpreter stand between two people and relaying messages as theyre spoken in each native tongue. :-) as "keeper" of the second largest active real studios community next to these forums, I'd like to see more people interacting and 'spreading-the-fire' perhaps with what's "behind closed doors which remains unspoken" this opportunity wil arise. I want to see people getting excited like they did with microsoft's visual basic...and I'm constantly 'persuading' people into why RS is better as a
Developer myself using over 2 dozen languages... And as
Soon as I almost have them hooked..."oh did you see this? So and so has this and this and this plus this and this ...and wow look at this." and it's always some rinky-dink little group that suddenly flourishes overnight to steal RS's glory :-( real studio belongs at or near the top and just as they start to reach the apex..the mountain always jumps higher. We have an estimated 100,000 users...over how long? 16..17 years? Livecode..over 1 million users their first year...nme...over a million users and they're just turning 1 year old... I'm praying this year brings record astounding numbers like this to us... Let's cross fingers norm and everybody. :-)

Back to topic...regardless, Geoff is father of my 'Bride' (real studio)...and I'm not about to disrespect the in-laws or their wishes :-)

_________________
Matthew A. Combatti
Real Studio 2012 r1.2

Visit Xojo Developer's Spot!
Systems I Use:
Windows XP/Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008 r2/Windows 7/Windows 8
Mac OSX 10.5/Mac OSX 10.6/Mac OSX Server/Ubuntu/Debian/Suse/Red Hat/
Windows Server 2011/CentOS 5.4 /ReactOS/SimOS

~All Xojo Compatible~


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:20 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Netherlands
LiveCode 1 million users in one year? I suppose you have forgotten that LiveCode exists for quite some time (since 2001), but formerly it was called Runtime Revolution. I have a license for the missing platforms (Android and iOS), but actually dislike their 'natural' language code style.
By the way, the Kickstarter project to make LiveCode open source was a great success. It raised much more than the requested 350.000 pound. Maybe it's also an idea for Real to make a Kickstarter project for iOS support? That would allow them to hire extra engineers and speed things up.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 288
gerrut wrote:
LiveCode 1 million users in one year? I suppose you have forgotten that LiveCode exists for quite some time (since 2001), but formerly it was called Runtime Revolution. I have a license for the missing platforms (Android and iOS), but actually dislike their 'natural' language code style.
By the way, the Kickstarter project to make LiveCode open source was a great success. It raised much more than the requested 350.000 pound. Maybe it's also an idea for Real to make a Kickstarter project for iOS support? That would allow them to hire extra engineers and speed things up.

I dislike rich companies who make a Kickstarter. Including RunRev. I don't think their problem is money; I'd guess it's just "ok, the product doesn't sell anymore; let's take some extra money".

And if Real wants some money, find new users. LiveCode got really popular when they launched a video about iOS programming in english (although RB is more english :) )

_________________
Mac OS X 10.3-10.8
Windows 2000 (I know it sucks)
Windows Server 2007

You want a bunch of new classes and web styles? realstudiodevspot.com (search there for Web Styles Plugin)
Folderitem is too hard? File Bin Class
I hate cows.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:44 am
Posts: 583
I'm kind of (really) excited about iOS apps, too. So, my question is - how easy will it be to move design elements to the iOS side of things?

I've got two or three projects I'd love to have on an iPad and now that that might be realistic sometimes, I want to get started building GUIs.

What size window in pixels should I use for an iPhone 5 app? An iPad mini? or a retina iPad? I'm thinking of essentially making desktops apps more or less the right size with a lot of the functionality so I'm as ready to go as possible to program on the RS iOS platform.

I know the touch and swipe will come later, but I just want to get started on these projects already.

Anyone have an educated guess on how to begin now?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 288
Kyan wrote:
I'm kind of (really) excited about iOS apps, too. So, my question is - how easy will it be to move design elements to the iOS side of things?

I've got two or three projects I'd love to have on an iPad and now that that might be realistic sometimes, I want to get started building GUIs.

What size window in pixels should I use for an iPhone 5 app? An iPad mini? or a retina iPad? I'm thinking of essentially making desktops apps more or less the right size with a lot of the functionality so I'm as ready to go as possible to program on the RS iOS platform.

I know the touch and swipe will come later, but I just want to get started on these projects already.

Anyone have an educated guess on how to begin now?

If you have a mac, download XCode just for planning (I am quite sure there is planning software for windows too)

_________________
Mac OS X 10.3-10.8
Windows 2000 (I know it sucks)
Windows Server 2007

You want a bunch of new classes and web styles? realstudiodevspot.com (search there for Web Styles Plugin)
Folderitem is too hard? File Bin Class
I hate cows.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:44 am
Posts: 583
NaNdummy wrote:
If you have a mac, download XCode just for planning (I am quite sure there is planning software for windows too)


I have XCode actually and while I could design in it, I really would like to make a "half-working mock-up" in Real Studio, because I could incude a lot of my methods and controls and things. Also, I can fiddle around with a "working desktop version" as I progress to see if there is any better way to design it.

I can't do that in XCode, unfortunately.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:00 pm 
Offline
Real Software Engineer

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:18 pm
Posts: 7858
Location: Canada, Alberta, Near Red Deer
simulanics wrote:
So why not just use the LLVM compiled version of GCC which is cross-platform available...so it runs on windows, Mac, and Linux...and can compile code for ios on all 3?

Because we don't output C/ C++ code for such a thing to compile
And because trying to translate RB / RS Code into C++ or something platform specific would be tons more work

simulanics wrote:
Livecode..over 1 million users their first year...nme...over a million users and they're just turning 1 year old... I'm praying this year brings record astounding numbers like this to us...

LiveCode is RunRev renamed - more than 1 year old by a long stretch

_________________
Norman Palardy (Real Software)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:44 pm
Posts: 673
npalardy wrote:
LiveCode is RunRev renamed - more than 1 year old by a long stretch


I know that RR is older than 1 year for sure but that really isn't the point.

I'm pretty sure RS is older the RR/LC but what really matters is the number of paid users.

1 million to 150,000 is a huge difference.

Norman, there must be good reasons why RR/LC has so many more users.

Maybe you guys at REAL should take a closer look at RR/LC and see what they're doing right ?


As an RS developer I'd love to see REAL Studio's popularity grow.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:10 am
Posts: 1086
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
Perhaps there could be a volunteer training program like the other studios have that are trained on specifics to touch upon and go to various organizations, colleges, schools, etc and give a presentation demonstrating how it works and a well thoughtout presentation to give? I would volunteer in a heart-beat! It's one thing to advertise, another to tell about, and even better when it becomes personal...actually demonstrated before your eyes...that is one key feature of the other environments we lack in the RS community and the reason why the other environments achieve such high volumes in so little time. I would love to see
RS ignite and spread like wild-fire finally... Perhaps I could, or you (Norm) could pass such an idea along to Greg and the marketing department?

And not to refute the work that has been done...but sometimes more work at first..leads to less less work later on... The basics of programming states "Garbage in, garbage out."... Now RS is far from garbage..but we'll only get out what was put in to it... And as object classes...c code can easily be manipulated as any other object if a basic organized structure is setup to handle the objects... Heck I managed to convert 30+ objects and standard obj c if/thens, loops, numeric statement handlers, file handlers, and a whole Myriad of obj-c code into a "BASIC" code syntax in under 5 months...and the preexisting compilers handle the building and debugging...knowing very little about obj-c and the iOS sdk when I started :-) but I cannot deny the amount of work that has been put into the studio...and must say ...thanks and great work!

_________________
Matthew A. Combatti
Real Studio 2012 r1.2

Visit Xojo Developer's Spot!
Systems I Use:
Windows XP/Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008 r2/Windows 7/Windows 8
Mac OSX 10.5/Mac OSX 10.6/Mac OSX Server/Ubuntu/Debian/Suse/Red Hat/
Windows Server 2011/CentOS 5.4 /ReactOS/SimOS

~All Xojo Compatible~


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:23 pm 
Offline
Real Software Engineer

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:18 pm
Posts: 7858
Location: Canada, Alberta, Near Red Deer
J.Sh3ppard wrote:
npalardy wrote:
LiveCode is RunRev renamed - more than 1 year old by a long stretch


I know that RR is older than 1 year for sure but that really isn't the point.

I'm pretty sure RS is older the RR/LC but what really matters is the number of paid users.

RunRev acquired the old Metacard which has been around a long time - longer than Real Basic I'm quite sure.

J.Sh3ppard wrote:
1 million to 150,000 is a huge difference.

Norman, there must be good reasons why RR/LC has so many more users.

Maybe you guys at REAL should take a closer look at RR/LC and see what they're doing right ?

Downloads ≠ active users or people willing to buy something.
I think we're comparing apples and elephants

_________________
Norman Palardy (Real Software)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:44 pm
Posts: 673
npalardy wrote:
Downloads ≠ active users or people willing to buy something.


I can agree that more downloads does not always lead to more sales, but we can also agree that :

Getting punched in the face does not always hurt.

Having 100 million dollars of wealth does not always make one happy.

There is hardly anything that is always one result given another possibility.

Repeatedly flip a coin 'forever' and the result will not always be heads or tails.
Sometimes it will land on the edge and be neither.

Usually more dates will lead to more sex if that is the goal.

Usually more money means more opportunities and when used wisely means more happiness.

Usually getting punched in the face hurts. Ouch.

Usually significant more downloads will lead to more sales.

:)

Always? Well, no. But it's hard to find always in this existence when other possibilities are available.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:10 am 
Offline
Real Software Engineer

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:18 pm
Posts: 7858
Location: Canada, Alberta, Near Red Deer
Lots of users is usually a great thing.
But it has to turn into revenue to sustain a company otherwise they have to go to alternate means like raising money on KickStarter :)

_________________
Norman Palardy (Real Software)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 288
As much as I know, LiveCode got popular when they launched a video about iOS development on YouTube

_________________
Mac OS X 10.3-10.8
Windows 2000 (I know it sucks)
Windows Server 2007

You want a bunch of new classes and web styles? realstudiodevspot.com (search there for Web Styles Plugin)
Folderitem is too hard? File Bin Class
I hate cows.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:20 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Netherlands
NaNdummy wrote:
As much as I know, LiveCode got popular when they launched a video about iOS development on YouTube


I first learned of Livecode, then Runtime Revolution, some 10 years ago when an old edition was given away with a magazine. Never really liked the language and preferred to pay for RealBasic instead, which has a syntax more like other languages as Java, PHP and Javascript. That makes RealBasic an easy language if you already know some things of programming. And with its OOP-capability it is a great first step to learn programming.

The addition of Android and iOS as platforms to LiveCode have however regained some of my interest. Without it, LiveCode had no reason to continue anymore I think. Most people interested in programming are already familiar with Javascript and PHP nowadays, so their peculiar syntax became a con instead of a pro. But by becoming one of the few tools to create native programs for iOS as well as Android, it has a reason to keep on going.

A similar trend can be seen at RealBasic I think. Here too most users have been Basic programmers for a long time. People learning to program now turn to XCode's Objective-C, Ruby, Java (comeback because of Android), et cetera. The inclusion of Web Edition could have made a change, but I still do not see much use for it because of the high cost, instability and requirements to the server environment (I will stick with PHP/MySQL for now). So Real might need to get its hands dirty with iOS, Android, Windows 8 RT soon to keep customers satisfied.

Once people turn to Objective-C you probably will not see them back. The number of websites and developers that first talked about RealBasic and then changed to Objective-C is growing as you will see when you look at links to third party products.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group