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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Location: Ely, England
J.Sh3ppard wrote:
I need to hit as many customers as possible with my products. That's why I think Corona is still my best bet at this time. I do have a few business ideas planned for mobile but I think I want to switch gears and try the mobile game market which is what Corona seems to be great at.
Have you looked at haXeNME?

It can build for Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS, BlackBerry, Flash, HTML5 and webOS.

It's very much like programming for the Flash API using ActionScript, so you have a stage and sprites etc...

Here's the impressive list of features.

It's also free so you lose nothing by giving it a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:42 pm 
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HMARROQUINC wrote:
Actually 350,000 pounds which is a bit over $500,000. They are about 1/3 in.

Currently at 95%.

Quote:
Reading what's on the link it will be an open source project to develop open source projects.

Yes, like MySQL and other such projects, LiveCode will be dual-licensed. This allows commercial developers who prefer to keep their code proprietary to purchase a license for the Commercial Edition as they've always done, but now those for whom the GPL is a good fit have that option as well. With their Linux ARM compile coming for Raspberry Pi, this should be a good fit for many EDU uses, though those making internal tools for businesses, where they're not releasing their app to the public, could use the GPL-governed Community Edition as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:27 am 
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Hate to be a hater,
but I'm not an iOS user nor do I care to develop for it so it's not really that exciting for me.

If it was Android development in RealStudio, I'd probably be a bit more excited as I have 2 android tablets and a Galaxy S 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:09 am 
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What I'm wondering is, with all the previous customer feature request hype for iOS WHERE ARE THEY ALL NOW?

Hardly anyone has replied that they are gonzo for iOS support in Real Studio.

Did they discover other tools and move on?

When it's here it will be cool though.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:08 am 
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J.Sh3ppard wrote:
What I'm wondering is, with all the previous customer feature request hype for iOS WHERE ARE THEY ALL NOW?

Hardly anyone has replied that they are gonzo for iOS support in Real Studio.

Did they discover other tools and move on?

When it's here it will be cool though.


I think there are a lot more RS users that just develop and use the feedback than those who use the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:02 pm 
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Zack.H wrote:
Hate to be a hater,
but I'm not an iOS user nor do I care to develop for it so it's not really that exciting for me.

If it was Android development in RealStudio, I'd probably be a bit more excited as I have 2 android tablets and a Galaxy S 3.


Have you checked basic4android? I have been playing with it. At least one gets to stay with the BASIC language.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:08 pm 
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SteveW wrote:
Have you looked at haXeNME?
It can build for Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS, BlackBerry, Flash, HTML5 and webOS.
It's very much like programming for the Flash API using ActionScript, so you have a stage and sprites etc...
Here's the impressive list of features.
It's also free so you lose nothing by giving it a try.


Wow that looks great! I gotta look more into it, thanks for the post SteveW.

I don't understand how RS is so slow developing things?
It seems like other companies are much faster at developing their products.

Maybe Real needs to get some investors so they can hire more developers?
Otherwise it doesn't seem like they can continue to compete with all the other developing tools.

I still don't understand why WE doesn't allow us to develop normal webpages (not only web apps) so it's a complete web building kit?


neonash7777 wrote:
I think there are a lot more RS users that just develop and use the feedback than those who use the forum.



Hi neonash7777.

Yes I agree, there must be a huge number of users that don't visit the forum much.
However, I thought in an older thread on the forum there were a lot of people wanting iOS?
It will be nice when it's here.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Perhaps I'm dumb but I read some of haxenme's documentation about a couple of weeks ago and it gave me a headache.

Not bashing it since I really didn't understand it, might be a good platform but at least to me it wasn't that intuitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:08 pm 
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J.Sh3ppard wrote:
What I'm wondering is, with all the previous customer feature request hype for iOS WHERE ARE THEY ALL NOW?

Hardly anyone has replied that they are gonzo for iOS support in Real Studio.

Did they discover other tools and move on?

When it's here it will be cool though.


Like myself, after waiting 3 years with a year left to go, decided to write my own iOS development suite and compiler :-) (as well as for Android!)... sometimes you can't wait for the work to be done and have to suck it up and move on, or do it yourself. Unfortunately, I cannot release either to the public since they were developed with Real Studio and are for 'internal' use...Plus at this point, I know what my suites can do and can expand them as necessary without needing to wait a 90-120-150 day release cycle :-/ see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46774

It was easier writing the code to generate the native obj-c and Java code to create the applications for ios/android than it was creating the drag-drop design interface.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:00 pm 
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simulanics wrote:
Like myself, after waiting 3 years with a year left to go, decided to write my own iOS development suite and compiler :-) (as well as for Android!)... sometimes you can't wait for the work to be done and have to suck it up and move on, or do it yourself.


Hey Simulanics!

I know what you mean. I really don't know why it takes RS so long to develop stuff ?
They really need to get more developers working. I wonder if they'd sell portions of the company to investors? I wonder if there's any investors who'd be willing to put serious money at this point? It seems RS is falling way behind competition :(


simulanics wrote:
Unfortunately, I cannot release either to the public since they were developed with Real Studio and are for 'internal' use...Plus at this point, I know what my suites can do and can expand them as necessary without needing to wait a 90-120-150 day release cycle :-/ see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46774

It was easier writing the code to generate the native obj-c and Java code to create the applications for ios/android than it was creating the drag-drop design interface.


Damn. I'd love to use your stuff :)
Perhaps you could distribute it using an older version of RS ;)


I'm overloaded with projects and life otherwise I'd probably write my own too.

Thanks for the reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:08 pm 
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If you read their licensing terms, the newest license always supersedes previous licensing terms.

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Matthew A. Combatti
Real Studio 2012 r1.2

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Location: Fresno, CA
simulanics wrote:
Unfortunately, I cannot release either to the public since they were developed with Real Studio and are for 'internal' use...


License terms allow you to distribute it. It states if you create a derivative by exposing the Real Framework (via rbscript for example) that would be prohibited. If its for another development environment (ie: yours) then you can do it as long as there is a "Made with Real Studio" picture in your about box and splash screen. There are graphics in your RealSoftware.com account page just for this purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:57 pm 
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pjzedalis wrote:
simulanics wrote:
Unfortunately, I cannot release either to the public since they were developed with Real Studio and are for 'internal' use...


License terms allow you to distribute it. It states if you create a derivative by exposing the Real Framework (via rbscript for example) that would be prohibited. If its for another development environment (ie: yours) then you can do it as long as there is a "Made with Real Studio" picture in your about box and splash screen. There are graphics in your RealSoftware.com account page just for this purpose.


Geoff Perlman personally took the time to request that it not be shared publicly, and that I removed the available download (which I did), and I must comply. The software basically generates pure obj-c code exposing obj-c iOS SDK classes and using them in an object oriented manor...then uses the open source GCC compiler for ARM and ios header files to compile and package the code into an installable iOS IPA file...debugging was handled by GCC and errors are reported in the IDE, since GCC natively handles obj-c syntax checking and debugging. The download was available for approximately 2 days when it was available for Windows, Mac, and Linux. I'm sure these lines of the license agreement would continue to prevent its distribution.

License Distributed with Real Studio 2012 r2.1:
(Prevents Distribution)
    * You agree that you will not use Real Studio to create software the primary purpose of which is to create software that would be available to the public.
    *You agree that you will not use Real Studio to create software that has as its primary purpose the creation of software without the express written consent of Real Software, Inc. This restriction applies only to software that is made available to the public whether for sale or not.

The wording is a bit "at the user's interpretation" since, in fact, such could be distributed as long as the code generated from it was not compiled into software which was to be made available to the public 'as a whole'; but for the individual's personal use may be another question? In which case a license agreement would need to be added that using my software you would be bound to such terms.

License Available for viewing at realsoftware.com:
http://www.realsoftware.com/realstudio/fulllicense
(Allows such distribution)
    You agree to allow Real Studio to transmit from time to time via SSL, information required to validate your license key. You agree not to create an application that, as its primary purpose, provides your application's end user with access to RBScript and/or the ability to directly (or indirectly through a simple wrapper) call functions in the Realbasic framework. Such software creation is strictly prohibited and would therefore be a violation of this End User License Agreement. You agree that if you and/or Real Software, Inc., believe that any applications you create with Real Studio are designed to aid in the development of software using a language other than Realbasic, said applications must include a "Made with Real Studio" logo in the application's about box and splash screen and must adhere to the rules that govern the use of said logo. Contact Real Software to obtain the logos and usage guidelines. If you are using a trial license key, you are only entitled to use Real Studio for evaluation and testing purposes until the end of your trial period.

Respectively, an older version of Realbasic could be used which does not come with such stipulations in the license agreement to build the front-end ios designer for gcc (which is open source); In which case the online, nor bundled software license would be voilated? Yet, I believe by agreeing to use RS2012r2.1, you become bound by the latest license agreement...which would supersede the old license agreement....

Geoff's primary concern was 'competition' since RS will be releasing an iOS 'compiler' later next year. Regardless, I respect Geoff's wishes. Although I do find it peculiar that at the time I created the software I was jumping into the iOS SDK and obj-c (I am a c/c++ guru though) for the first time(2010)...took a month to develop the original IDE in Visual Basic, and 2 months to integrate all the iOS SDK classes as objects, and create the header files for gcc cross-platform use of the ARM compiler(converted all the code to RS in January :-))...So the project was completed and 'perfected' by the 5th month...yet RS has been working on their release for nearly 5 years...6...7 years? With that much time spent I'm sure their release will be absolutely astonishing and I'm sure they have perfected it by this point and are adding the last final touches over the next year until the first release. I personally did not find reason to develop a compiler for it since gcc is the common compiler and why re-invent the wheel?..as with Android, the code is converted to java and then compiled to an apk (which requires the android sdk and JDK)...there was no point developing a byte-code compiler for it since it already existed, was free, and is optimized for development of android applications to begin with, without flaws or need for beta-testing... RS's holdup on developing an iOS/Android front-end lies in the wait to use LLVM so that they can create a custom compiler which uses the higher-end byte-code...but this again is...re-inventing the wheel.

I think it's great that they're trying to develop proprietary compilation methods for software...but this has already left them slightly behind schedule...some newer companies which have only existed for under a year have already created cross-platform software development environments for not only Windows, Mac, Linux, and the web...but Android, iOS, Blackberry, Symbian, ARM-compatible platforms...and a whole myriad...solely because they didn't 're-invent' wheels first..but used the wheels that were already in place with custom front-ends to get them where they are...then have slowly 'upgraded' to new wheels...

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Real Studio 2012 r1.2

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Mac OSX 10.5/Mac OSX 10.6/Mac OSX Server/Ubuntu/Debian/Suse/Red Hat/
Windows Server 2011/CentOS 5.4 /ReactOS/SimOS

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Location: Fresno, CA
simulanics wrote:
I'm sure these lines of the license agreement would continue to prevent its distribution.

License Distributed with Real Studio 2012 r2.1:
(Prevents Distribution)
    * You agree that you will not use Real Studio to create software the primary purpose of which is to create software that would be available to the public.
    *You agree that you will not use Real Studio to create software that has as its primary purpose the creation of software without the express written consent of Real Software, Inc. This restriction applies only to software that is made available to the public whether for sale or not.


I do not see such terms in my LicenseAgreement.txt with 2012 r2.1. There was quite a conversation about those license changes on the mailing lists. What you have quoted is not consistent with the license changes they informed us of.

It's fine doing what Geoff asked, I can understand that. I still don't believe you are legally forbidden to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:28 pm 
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simulanics wrote:
So the project was completed and 'perfected' by the 5th month...yet RS has been working on their release for nearly 5 years...6...7 years?

iOS ?
It will be about 12 mos by the time conference rolls around

simulanics wrote:
I think it's great that they're trying to develop proprietary compilation methods for software...but this has already left them slightly behind schedule...some newer companies which have only existed for under a year have already created cross-platform software development environments for not only Windows, Mac, Linux, and the web...but Android, iOS, Blackberry, Symbian, ARM-compatible platforms...and a whole myriad...solely because they didn't 're-invent' wheels first..but used the wheels that were already in place with custom front-ends to get them where they are...then have slowly 'upgraded' to new wheels...

Actually we have the reverse issue
We already HAVE an existing compiler that we wrote years ago (pre 2005- which is the second one) as at the time there really were no tool kits like LLVM around to write a compiler with.
Now there are & we're moving our code base to a completely new compiler back end based on LLVM (64 bit etc)
It's easy to move fast when you have no pre-existing customers to worry about breaking their code.
We don't have that luxury.

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