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 Post subject: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:21 am
Posts: 446
I have a native iPhone app, but its not a runaway success. My reasoning for not putting effort into makings it better is the ROI on the effort,

I get emails time to time asking about the ipad version. My iPhone app was ok, but it was constricted on the smaller iPhone screen. It will be perfect on the ipad size.

What does everyone know about when this ios development will be ready for us? How easy it will be to convert mac projects to an ios project?

I am insanely excited about bringing my app to te ipad. My only worry is that if we look how long cocoa took to come, we will get ios development in 2021.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:07 am 
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 5:35 am
Posts: 2412
Location: Netherlands
Just be patient..

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:41 am 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:56 am
Posts: 702
You know what?
Thats pretty much my experience.

I was a strong advocate for REAL not bothering with iOS (because I needed Cocoa more than anything.)

I bought Corona and built an iPad app. Its so so .. the editor is crummy , and the paradigms of a desktop app dont migrate too well to the iPad.
'They' pestered me for an iPhone app and I did one but, urgh... that tiny tiny screen.

BUT: If Real get something that lets me use an RS editor, and uses RB syntax, I can do a better version in half the time.
So, I'm getting a bit interested now...


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:44 pm
Posts: 673
I'm interested but I wouldn't say I'm madly excited.

I'd be more interested if it were 'full mobile' support (iOS, android, kindle, and nook) and ready today or within the next three months.

Knowing that it's so far off and it's only iOS at this point merely keeps me interested.


I'm guessing for Real to support the major mobile platforms I mentioned above it will take over a year from today. Of course that's just guess and I could be entirely wrong. After they get iOS rolled out maybe the other platforms will happen much quicker than iOS did...

As my developing focus slowly shifts from desktop to websites that year delay might be ok for me. But I already do have some mobile apps on my mind that I would like to develop so it really depends on what projects I decide to take on within that time frame. If I get to them before Real's mobile kit is ready then I'll probably use Corona because it can already build for those mobile platforms and it's pretty solid. If and when I start my mobile developing adventures and Real's iOS kit is ready and solid then I may use it and patiently wait for Real to support Andriod, Kindle, etc. I don't know yet. If I develop three or four iOS apps that completely bomb I may go around and personally smash everyone's iPad then I won't have to worry about developing for mobile anymore and life will be easy again :)
One area I hope Real's iOS kit can do well is game making. Games are huge on mobile so I'm hoping Real's mobile kit will make that fun, easy and quick to develop for. IF Real can make gaming easy then I'm hoping I can create the next super successful game where I rake in massive profits so I can FINALLY buy my own island and start my plans for world domination.
That would be great timing too because at my age this evil sh*t is getting tiresome ;)

Quote:
OH YEAAAAHHHH !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ou22deKXcI


Cocoa :
I don't really understand it, the last few releases don't seem to have much of any Cocoa support while the other features and Real products are getting a lot of support : WE, iOS, LLVM, new IDE, etc. but Cocoa is still in 'beta' mode?

Not too happy that my Cocoa money went to those other things before Cocoa is even finished. I understand Real needs to expand their product line but it feels like they kinda left us desktop customers out in the cold by over focusing on the other new products and features while under focusing on Cocoa :(



Opposite to my earlier plan it now has me thinking not to purchase another REAL desktop pro renewal anytime soon (next 12 months) :(

My current license is still active and I don't foresee anything worthy being completed for desktop, console or databases in the next 12 months given how long it's taken for any significant desktop (Cocoa) improvements to happen.


In the next 12 months for Real desktop I expect LLVM completion, Cocoa optimization, and bug fixes. I'm not really sure what that means to me on a realistic level since Cocoa is supposed to be super high quality (a major reason for the long delay) when the final is released?


Something significant to me for desktop :
I'm guessing 64 bit for OS X, Linux and Windows is going to take at least 11 months to do right. I'm particularly interested in having 64 bit for OS X because that's my main customer base. I'm also interested in Linux 64 bit because that's huge for servers and I'm interested in developing my own desktop server apps as well as WE production. Windows 64 bit today is a big 'whatever' for me. Maybe in a year it will be very important but right now I don't care much so I'm glad Real decided to make that the last 64 bit target.



So my preference is that Real puts more focus on desktop maintaining high quality and very fast bug fixes so that I know when I need to develop a desktop app for Mac, Windows or Linux I can. I don't like how the new Real toys have taken away from desktop focus. I know they have different developers for WE and maybe iOS but the reality is it's desktop money that went into those new toys which means there was definitely a loss of focus in desktop.

Can anyone suggest why I should buy another desktop pro renewal license 'today' before the new IDE comes out and the new price changes take affect?


What new features are we expecting from desktop over the next 12 months?


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Real Software Engineer

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:18 pm
Posts: 7858
Location: Canada, Alberta, Near Red Deer
J.Sh3ppard wrote:
I'd be more interested if it were 'full mobile' support (iOS, android, kindle, and nook) and ready today or within the next three months.

iOS is definitely a great target as the OS is very similar through all versions so it's easier to target them all.

Android has soem fragmentation issues so it may come down to supporting only a few releases.

I'm not sure the Kindle & nook have a big enough market to warrant.

And each requires a different runtime so it has to have a sufficient number to warrant it or us to create & support the framework for that platform.

http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/26/the-an ... t-paradox/ shows iOS makes up the vast majority of mobile traffic so it's a big target to hit. The rest are much more limited.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:44 pm
Posts: 673
npalardy wrote:
iOS is definitely a great target as the OS is very similar through all versions so it's easier to target them all.


Hi Norman, thanks for the reply.

I agree that iOS is probably the best mobile platform to target but I guess it depends on what the developer's needs are.

For example, sure iOS has the best devices and probably even the most mobile devices sold per OS. But that also means iOS likely has the most competition with already existing apps. That tends to mean tougher competition to make money for us the developers for a new app.

If you've already got a desktop app that your customers want mobile, iOS is probably the most in demand which is good news that Real is supporting it.

But if you're developing new apps I'm not so sure iOS is the best mobile market to target because of the already existing oversupply of iOS apps.
I'm pretty sure Kindle has millions of devices out there and I believe they have their own Kindle app store although I don't know how many sales happen nor do I know how many apps are now in existence.

Kindle also recently just came out with a newer and I think larger screened version of it's Fire device which means Amazon is still serious about it's mobile device so I wouldn't count it out.

I don't blame Real for choosing iOS to be their first mobile OS target; I would do the same. I'm just hoping you guys aren't stopping there because the other mobile platforms are also very large and possess great potential.


It will be interesting how things unfold.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:01 pm
Posts: 446
I'm very excited about the iOS release. I'm a certified iOS developer but XCode drives me insane. It was worse when they didn't have automatic reference counting and what not but it still has a long ways to code. I hate needing two files for the same class and I wish the IDE worked more like RealStudio's - I want a just list of all my methods and classes where I can simply click on the one I want to edit...

A generic "Mobile" platform support would be nice. If they write it for Android it also opens up the Windows phone platform as well as it can use BlueStacks to run Android developed apps (the reason why Windows phones already have any significant number of apps). Blackberry too has methods to run Android apps.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:43 pm
Posts: 1221
Location: This poster has left the forums
I've used Ansca Corona, Unity, and Xcode.

Over time, I've found the latter is the only way to get all the features I need. Given how immature a RS version that targets iOS is likely to be, I can't imagine it being useful for anything I'd want to write.

I've repeatedly started off writing a product using either Corona or Unity, then had to abandon it and start again in Xcode as a requested feature could not be used.
I once wrote a fairly simple app for a hospital, all in Corona LUA. One side feature, was that it could take images and upload them. Everything was great until they said they would like to overlay an image over the camera preview window to help frame the area, at which point I started again in Objective C. Very frustrating and time consuming.

Xcode and objective C are a mare when used for the first time, but its all a learning curve. There is plenty of sample code out there, and good books to read.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:21 am
Posts: 446
I feel a bit constrained to use RB. I am not dong this full time and don't have the time to learn Xcode. My interests in the ipad app counts on rapid development otherwise its not feasible.

Iv tried learning Xcode, but I wish I had a class to walk me through the basics of the interface, linking, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:01 pm
Posts: 446
MacMatt wrote:
I feel a bit constrained to use RB. I am not dong this full time and don't have the time to learn Xcode. My interests in the ipad app counts on rapid development otherwise its not feasible.

Iv tried learning Xcode, but I wish I had a class to walk me through the basics of the interface, linking, etc.



It would be really cool if REALStudio linked in the documentation for XCode with the autofills for an iOS app. I love development and scripting process in REALStudio much better than XCode but there is just no way RS's version is going to be adequate unless we get every control's full functionality. If there's a way to incorporate all the Objective C methods automatically, that would be awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:44 pm
Posts: 673
pony wrote:
I've used Ansca Corona, Unity, and Xcode.

Over time, I've found the latter is the only way to get all the features I need. Given how immature a RS version that targets iOS is likely to be, I can't imagine it being useful for anything I'd want to write.


Hey Pony glad to see you back on the forum.
I also have lack of feature concerns with both RS / Corona mobile so I often think about learning Xcode.

But since I'm already splitting my time between web development, desktop development and trading the markets I doubt I'll have the time or desire to really jump into Xcode and learn Objective C. If I did take the time to learn Xcode and Objective C I'd still be missing out on the other major mobile platforms which doesn't make sense to me.

If you're writing mobile apps to sell to the public, don't you miss not being able to support the other major mobile platforms when you're using Xcode ?

I need to hit as many customers as possible with my products. That's why I think Corona is still my best bet at this time. I do have a few business ideas planned for mobile but I think I want to switch gears and try the mobile game market which is what Corona seems to be great at.



pony wrote:
I've repeatedly started off writing a product using either Corona or Unity, then had to abandon it and start again in Xcode as a requested feature could not be used.


That's scary stuff. Sorry you went through that.
Can you list more features you needed that Corona didn't have?
My business mobile apps will be requiring sockets and I'm a little concerned Corona may not have what I need.

pony wrote:
I once wrote a fairly simple app for a hospital, all in Corona LUA. One side feature, was that it could take images and upload them. Everything was great until they said they would like to overlay an image over the camera preview window to help frame the area, at which point I started again in Objective C. Very frustrating and time consuming.


I wonder how the Corona team handles feature requests/bug fixes?

Ultimately you may be right, native could be the only way to go...

That way you're not limited by anything and if your project makes enough money you could always hire a team to write for the other mobile platforms.

Maybe I do need to reconsider Xcode again.


MacMatt wrote:
Iv tried learning Xcode, but I wish I had a class to walk me through the basics of the interface, linking, etc.


There are online courses. Stanford university has free courses on iOS (check the url below) that had some free iOS development courses and there's always youtube freebies and paid for online courses like lynda.com. If you search KhanAcademy maybe he's got some free courses or if you ask him for iOS / Xcode courses maybe he'll create some.


http://itunes.stanford.edu/


http://www.lynda.com/search?q=xcode&x=0&y=0

http://www.khanacademy.org/#browse


If there's enough RS users here that want to learn Xcode and want to form our own learning group/forum I'd probably be interested in participating.

Are there any others?


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:20 am
Posts: 84
For your Info:

Livecode try to raise 350.000 pounds through Kickstart. If they succeed they will make an opensource version

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/175 ... f-livecode


Last edited by J.Hansen on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:11 pm
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Location: Guatemala, Central America
Actually 350,000 pounds which is a bit over $500,000. They are about 1/3 in.

Reading what's on the link it will be an open source project to develop open source projects.

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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:20 am
Posts: 84
HMARROQUINC wrote:
Actually 350,000 pounds which is a bit over $500,000. They are about 1/3 in.

Reading what's on the link it will be an open source project to develop open source projects.


Thanks
I have corrected it


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is madly excited for iOS development?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:27 am
Posts: 67
This thread probably now needs closed or moved to Off-Topic. For what it's worth, I do know Xcode/Objective-C and have released a number of apps using it and I still prefer Real Studio - I am many times more productive in RS than in Xcode and I can't wait to be able to build for iOS. Each to their own of course, if you've got the time and interest, check out Xcode, there's any amount of learning material out there. I'd imagine most people will find their way back to RS sooner or later though. As for LiveCode, it's frankly hideous and I wouldn't waste my time on it. Non-native controls, terrible IDE, horrible documentation - behind the glossy website there's surprisingly little good material, don't be fooled.

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