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 Post subject: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:13 am 
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Thom,

What does RealSoftware developers think about this Google Chrome OS Video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JyFbF7QFlY&feature=channel:

I think COS is going to be huge.

The biggest reason are:

1) Developers will make more money with less effort supporting COS apps because their support costs will drop significantly. No more supporting multiple platforms, multiple versions, software installations packages, or legacy software.

2) No more syncing anything, anywhere! With COS everything is synced and encrypted all of the time.

3) Developers will be able to write plug-ins and extensions (Can Realsoftware facilitate this?)

4) How would a developer write a version of Photoshop, for example, to run on the web with RealBasic?

Sure, having your data in the cloud has issues, but so does what you're doing now. If you absolutely need to have local data, you can use a USB device. Google GEARS will sync data constantly, so offline, you'll have whatever you need.

COS is more than a year away. What can RealSoftware do in a Year ??

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Last edited by Jordan on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:59 am 
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Different Geoff here, but anyways...
Quote:
What can RealSoftware do in a Year ??


In one respect, can they /should they do anything?
Since ChromeOS is a Linux based OS, we may find that RB apps run as client apps without much fuss.

The webcast relates how Google want to shift to have 'everything runs through the browser' (which I am sure was the original intent of Microsoft from about 95 onwards, using OLE embedding to have one frame present lots of functionality)

But should RB have something that allows RB developers to develop web-side apps to run through ChromeOS?
To me, that sounds like using a trowel to eat your lunch.
Wrong tool for the job.
Google already said they expect people to work with Javascript to develop for COS.

If this takes off (and it might do), then Microsoft are in real trouble, and there is a chance that the market for niche apps which stand alone will shrink as fewer people own machines which can even run them.

But thats a big IF.
Already, people can run Open Office free of charge on any platform, and Google already has free office style software for your browser.
But people still buy Office. Why is that? Until that mindset changes, COS won't take over the world.

Netbooks are a viable market for RB apps today.
Replace the OS with COS and they may not be.

I personally do not want my data and documents out on the web.
I want them here, so that I can use them in places without an internet connection.
Like Scotland and Wales. (Not actually joking there..)
That, and habit, is why I don't use Google Docs, and I can't be alone.
(Google don't even put a link to it on their main landing page, so I guess it may not be a hugely popular feature.)


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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:26 am 
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Cloud computing as a world wide solution will never be widely accepted for many many years....

Why... in my opinion I simple reason.

PARANOIA

Where exactly is my data?
How secure is it really?
etc.

When its on my own computer I know where it is....
and if I am REALLY paranoid, I unplug my ethernet cable... and I now know EXACTLY how secure it is...

So I am betting Chrome is going to be a wiz-bang proof of concept only.... with a very low level of adoption
With maybe changing the face of social networking sites.

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:27 pm 
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Quote:
Why... in my opinion I simple reason.
PARANOIA
Where exactly is my data?


Hmmm,

Do you file your taxes electronically?
Who hosts your email?
Do you store you credit card on any online sites? Amazon maybe?
Where are all of your banking transactions? online?

The answer is probably yes to all of these, and if not for you, for most people.

The question of penetration, especially for the 18-40 demographic is more significant than you think (think facebook, linkedin, twitter) It's all they know.

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Quote:
In one respect, can they /should they do anything?
Since ChromeOS is a Linux based OS, we may find that RB apps run as client apps without much fuss.


So there should be an RealSoftware strategic plan in this area, no?

Quote:
The webcast relates how Google want to shift to have 'everything runs through the browser' (which I am sure was the original intent of Microsoft from about 95 onwards, using OLE embedding to have one frame present lots of functionality)


Microsoft never had the credibility, web intelligence, forward thinking ability to do this. Google does.

Quote:
But should RB have something that allows RB developers to develop web-side apps to run through ChromeOS?


I definitely don't agree with you here. For the primary reasons I cited in my original post, developers want four things: a) customers, b) low support costs, c) zero-platform compatibility issues and zero-maintenance of legacy software, and d) more profit per customer, more profit per sale. COS gives you these things in a way that's not been viable since the mainframe. The mainframe (specifically timesharing) made IBM a global behemoth. Same potential here for developers. Just think. No shrinkwrap, no installation, ubiquity through the browser. Hard to ignore.

Quote:
To me, that sounds like using a trowel to eat your lunch.
Wrong tool for the job.


They said this about the iPhone's on-screen keyboard. 100,000 apps, and 80 million smartphones later, guess what?

Quote:
Google already said they expect people to work with Javascript to develop for COS.


For front-end, yes along with HTML5, and a handful of other technology. On the backend, though, Realbasic could play a role. (In fact, I wouldn't rule out the front-end either).

Quote:
If this takes off (and it might do), then Microsoft are in real trouble, and there is a chance that the market for niche apps which stand alone will shrink as fewer people own machines which can even run them.


Absolutely !! I think MS would already be toast, if not for Live and Bing.

Quote:
Already, people can run Open Office free of charge on any platform, and Google already has free office style software for your browser.
But people still buy Office. Why is that?


Open Office is evolving and doesn't have the support of Google. NeoOffice has been growing. Corporations buy Office. Nobody buys any other MS app of any significance. We're talking about a world of applications outside of text editing and spreadsheets.

Quote:
Netbooks are a viable market for RB apps today.
Replace the OS with COS and they may not be.


My point. I love Realbasic and want to see it evolve as well. RS was late on Cocoa. No reason they should be late on COS. Therefore, let's have a look at the roadmap? Where are they going with respect on COS.

Quote:
I personally do not want my data and documents out on the web.
I want them here, so that I can use them in places without an internet connection.
Like Scotland and Wales. (Not actually joking there..)


COS uses Google GEARS. GEARS sync your online and offline data. So not only are you secure, your protected from leaving that precious laptop of yours on the boat, train, or plane.

Quote:
That, and habit, is why I don't use Google Docs, and I can't be alone.
(Google don't even put a link to it on their main landing page, so I guess it may not be a hugely popular feature.)


Not sure how you know this? How would you know how popular Google Docs is?

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
Not sure how you know this? How would you know how popular Google Docs is?

Google Docs is a fun approach, but not ready for production. If your business depends on it, don't choose Google docs (at this time).

I'm not sure why Chrome would be so compelling -- it's barely vaporware at this point.

Google nailed the phone OS market with Android 1.x, didn't they? :P Granted, 2.x looks much better.

Michael

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not sure why Chrome would be so compelling -- it's barely vaporware at this point.


Funny quote.

The point "IS"...in two years, when Chrome is compelling - RealSoftware should be just as compelling and relevant because it had ChromeOS on its road map.

How long was Cocoa available before RS got with it??

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:18 pm
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Jordan wrote:
Do you file your taxes electronically?

No
Jordan wrote:
Who hosts your email?

I dont use imap and leave it on any server
Email has always had an issue with the store and forward model
Jordan wrote:
Do you store you credit card on any online sites? Amazon maybe?

No
Jordan wrote:
Where are all of your banking transactions? online?

No

As for why COS wont take over the world for a long while - internet ubiquity is not there yet
Get on an airplane - no internet
Check any AT&T, Sprint etc coverage map - huge empty areas still
COS might do well in certain narrow targeted areas
But why should it be any more successful than Ubuntu ?

Usability in Linux is still not quite there

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:49 pm 
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mrebar wrote:
Google nailed the phone OS market with Android 1.x, didn't they? :P Granted, 2.x looks much better.

HAH !
Android is a concept - not a platform
What works on one android phone may not work at all on another
The "platform" is so loose that damn near anything based on it can be called Android
There's no minimum spec so the range of "Android" devices will be hugely variable
Makes it really hard to be a developer for them unlike iPhone, Windows mobile and others
Your app may run on one and not at all on another

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Quote:
As for why COS wont take over the world for a long while - internet ubiquity is not there yet
Get on a place - no internet


And these are the customers you seek? I doubt it!

Quote:
COS might do well in certain narrow targeted areas


Hopefully, you, I and this forum will be around two years from now so we can examine your prediction. You keep trying to pigeon hole a paradigm shift in technology - just doesn't compute. Sorry, but you just can't equate Ubuntu to Internet usage. 80% of the mass market doesn't care whether their applications are stored locally or not. They care about getting to the Internet and the apps that live there, and plugging in USB devices when the need arises.

And BTW... You answered No to a lot of things people take for granted nowadays. I can tell you really don't like change... You're not the demographic Google is looking for...move on, nothing to see here ;)

P.S. I find it hard to believe you still write checks by hand. LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:56 pm 
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Jordan wrote:
Quote:
As for why COS wont take over the world for a long while - internet ubiquity is not there yet
Get on a place - no internet


And these are the customers you seek? I doubt it!

Misspelling on my part should have said "plane"
Ones that fly on airplanes ?
Ummm ok so we only take train and car travellers ?

Jordan wrote:
Quote:
COS might do well in certain narrow targeted areas

Hopefully, you, I and this forum will be around two years from now so we can examine your prediction. You keep trying to pigeon hole a paradigm shift in technology - just doesn't compute.

Yeah yeah ... I've seen this whole "paradigm shift" before.

Way back when Netscape was introduced folks touted the death of the PC and how the web would be taking over the world in the next few years. It's taken much more than 10 and it's certainly more prominent but there's still huge issues with web apps in general and they have yet to replace desktop apps in many areas.

Same for linux and how it spelled the death of Windows and proprietary OS's and paying for anything
Still waiting for that one to happen too

Will these things happen ?
Eventually but I'm betting its more like 10 years not one or two.
While technology may change rapidly it takes many more years for it to become ubiquitous.

Jordan wrote:
Sorry, but you just can't equate Ubuntu to Internet usage. 80% of the mass market doesn't care whether their applications are stored locally or not. They care about getting to the Internet and the apps that live there, and plugging in USB devices when the need arises.

If 80% of the market only cared about using the net then netbooks should be absolutely blowing out the doors. Outselling virtually every other kind of machine on the planet. That's not the case - yet.
If all you want is email and facebook get an iPhone.


Jordan wrote:
And BTW... You answered No to a lot of things people take for granted nowadays. I can tell you really don't like change...

You might be right if I had not started out writing mainframe code over 25 years ago, moved to client server in 1990/1992 and then on to we based apps in about 1998 - actually a very successful one for a very large pipeline co that ran internally.

I'm willing to change - just not willing to say the change is here when it's hardly even started or jump on a bandwagon that's hardly even built yet.
At this point COS is a drean yet to be fulfilled and committing resources to it would be seriously premature.

Jordan wrote:
You're not the demographic Google is looking for...move on, nothing to see here ;)

I answered no because I dont use them.
Too many credit cards stored on someones server have been stolen.
I just dont put my credit card numbers in someone elses care if I can help it
I use electronic transactions all the time.

And, for my own businesses I use written cheques for one reason - cash flow management.
Many invoices are considered paid on the date the envelope is post marked. Here in Canada that can buy an extra few days of cash in my accounts. If it's going to the US it's even longer.

Jordan wrote:
P.S. I find it hard to believe you still write checks by hand. LOL.

I still often get paid by hand written cheques from folks of all ages
Until I can personally accept a debit card or get paid internationally easily and without the exhorbitant fees that Paypal and banks extract for various funds transfers, likes wires, cheques actually turn out to still be one of the better mechanisms for certain things

Paypal is ridiculously expensive for large payments (on the order of hundreds of dollars for some transactions)
Try it sometime and see :)

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:11 am 
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Google Chrome OS is in fact a browser system. This means that every application for it is based on HTML5, JavaScript, Ajax and this kind of technologies. Engaging RealSoftware in creating next web developing tool misses the goal.

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:09 am 
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Quote:
Engaging RealSoftware in creating next web developing tool misses the goal.


I've not asked RS to develop the next web development tool. All I asked for was a roadmap for how/when/where/why RealBasic fits into the COS strategy, if at all. All of the technologies you mentioned have to talk to a server somewhere. Which means server software needs to be deployed. Let's say COS does fabulously well, the market for Desktop Apps will shrink considerably. What does RS do then? May want to think about it now, than later, that's all.

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:33 am 
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Quote:
Android is a concept - not a platform

I agree with all of your points, Norman. Was trying to suggest that with the razz.

While not directly comparable, Google is developing a phone OS and a..uh..non-phone OS. If the phone OS has proven difficult to master, I'm less bandwagony about the non-phone OS.

BlackHat showed that there isn't greater security in Chrome.

Michael

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 Post subject: Re: Geoff - What's RealSoftware's reaction to Chrome OS?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Real Softwares road map should be right down Broadway, enhancing their current product line, fixing the bugs, not going down the "Yellow Brick Road" and supporting the "next best thing" or chasing Alice down the rabbit hole



[wonders how long Jordan has been in the "real world"]

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