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 Post subject: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:15 pm 
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I switched from WIndows to OSX 6 or 7 years ago... and have not done much in Windows since. But now I have a project that I developed for OSX that might have a significant revenue income for me if I produce a Windows version... So I have a few questions for those of you who DO work in the windows world with RealStudio

1) I have an "older" PC running WinXP (2gig ram.. not sure the processor, but it is pre C2D). Is that good enough to work with?

2) I have a Synology NAS in my network, and the Win box will be connected to it... I plan on having RealStudio for OSX on my MacPro (already there), and RealStudio for Win on the box mentioned above, with the project code stored on the NAS. So I can edit the code on the MAC, store it to the NAS, and compile it on either/both machines for testing purposes.

3) For OSX.. RS creates a single "App" bundle.. those I can manage and distribute. I have heard the RS for WIN creates a much more complex structure... Can someone give a brief description of what files are distrubited where, and how best to deploy to a customer (without buying expensive "installers")

4) Am I correct in assuming the RS for WIN includes/uses SQLite the same as for OSX?

5) This particular project has no OSX declares, so I assume that 95% or more of the code should cross compile without issues? What about font differences? I know what OSX considers 14pt and what WIndows says is 14pt are not the same physical size. So will I have problems with form layout consistency?

Any other information that might make this easy would be vastly helpful.

Thanks.

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iMac I7[2012], OSX Mountain Lion 10.8.3 RB2012r2.1
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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:51 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
I switched from WIndows to OSX 6 or 7 years ago... and have not done much in Windows since. But now I have a project that I developed for OSX that might have a significant revenue income for me if I produce a Windows version... So I have a few questions for those of you who DO work in the windows world with RealStudio

1) I have an "older" PC running WinXP (2gig ram.. not sure the processor, but it is pre C2D). Is that good enough to work with?

2) I have a Synology NAS in my network, and the Win box will be connected to it... I plan on having RealStudio for OSX on my MacPro (already there), and RealStudio for Win on the box mentioned above, with the project code stored on the NAS. So I can edit the code on the MAC, store it to the NAS, and compile it on either/both machines for testing purposes.

3) For OSX.. RS creates a single "App" bundle.. those I can manage and distribute. I have heard the RS for WIN creates a much more complex structure... Can someone give a brief description of what files are distrubited where, and how best to deploy to a customer (without buying expensive "installers")

4) Am I correct in assuming the RS for WIN includes/uses SQLite the same as for OSX?

5) This particular project has no OSX declares, so I assume that 95% or more of the code should cross compile without issues? What about font differences? I know what OSX considers 14pt and what WIndows says is 14pt are not the same physical size. So will I have problems with form layout consistency?

Any other information that might make this easy would be vastly helpful.

Thanks.


My thoughts:

1: XP has an issue where it can take a long time to compile over time (not sure if it increases the time for each compile, or if it’s related to the amount of time the IDE has been open or amount of activity in the IDE since it was opened) If you do a lot of development in XP, you will probably become annoyed over time. If you’re just using XP to touch up any cross platform issues and compile, it may be ok.

2: Not sure what you are asking, or if I would be able to provide an answer

3: Depending on what controls or internal classes are used, you can still compile a single exe if the program is simple enough (I once noted that some controls require an ‘Appearance’ dll). If you require plugins or other dlls, you will get the .exe file with a folder of all necessary libraries.

4: I have used it on both platforms with no problems

5 Fonts will be different; in my experience, it can be vastly different. Definitely check all windows. In my case, I develop on the PC and run the application on the Mac, the fonts tend to be larger on the Mac. In your case, they are likely to be smaller than what you planned for.


Another issue I have noticed is that the tabpanel is different on a PC – On a Mac, the tabs are centered, but on the PC they are left aligned. Some controls may be slightly different sizes (I believe it was the tab panels as well – if you have controls such as a listbox which fill the tab panel page, it may not fit the same on the PC)

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:13 pm 
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For windows Installer look here Installers

The Inno Setup is free and very powerful...I have used it for years

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:15 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
3) For OSX.. RS creates a single "App" bundle.. those I can manage and distribute. I have heard the RS for WIN creates a much more complex structure... Can someone give a brief description of what files are distrubited where, and how best to deploy to a customer (without buying expensive "installers")

Any control or object implemented as a plugin will be compiled out to dlls and placed next to the built exe in a folder named "<AppName> Libs" (e.g. "My Application Libs".) Aaron Ballman laid it out for us back when this change went into effect. In the release following this change it was modified so that a RB app first looks for folder named "<AppName> Libs" in the same directory as the exe. Failing that, it looks for a directory named simply "Libs" in the same location. Failing that, an RB app will look for its plugin dlls in the same directory as the exe rather than in a subfolder. All of your plugin dlls must be located in only one of these places. If a plugin dll is not found, the app will fail to start.

A large part of the Runtime is implemented as plugins. You can peruse the "Internal plugins" subfolder of the "Resources" folder to see all the built-in plugins. A number of UI controls are implemented this way (in the "Appearance Pak" plugin,) but most of the "basic" controls (Pushbuttons, TextFields, etc.) are not and thus don't have any dlls associated with them. Databases, networking, JSON, MD5, RBScript, the Shell class, and a host of other features are implemented as plugins, and each plugin corresponds to a dll.

As you may be aware, the filenames of plugin dlls (and .so files under Linux and DynLibs under Mac) are stored in the plugin file itself (the RBX file) and can only be changed by directly modifying the RBX file. RBX files are VirtualVolumes, so it's not too difficult to write your own plugin renamer in RB. MBS distributes such a utility to obfuscate the presence of their plugins should a developer desire, with source code.

For installing most Win32 RB devs will use a third party installer toolkit. Many of us use InnoSetup, which is free, well written, and powerful.

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:23 pm 
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#2.... my idea is to be able to write code on either machine..... store it to a LAN based storage device (ie.. the SYNOLOGY device)... go to the other machine... load the project, compile it there, test it....

I don't want to invest in spending $120 for Win7 (or 8) just to compile/test a few programs... if it takes XP a minute (or 3) longer to compile.... I'll live with that....


Thanks for the info

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iMac I7[2012], OSX Mountain Lion 10.8.3 RB2012r2.1
Note : I am not interested in any solutions that involve custom Plug-ins of any kind


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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:43 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
I don't want to invest in spending $120 for Win7 (or 8) just to compile/test a few programs... if it takes XP a minute (or 3) longer to compile.... I'll live with that....


Until quite recently, I used an XP machine of the same vintage you described. RB worked fine and wasn't particularly slower than my new Win7 rig when you take the differences in processor power into account. You will notice that RealStudio is much slower to load than on newer hardware, but the OS doesn't seem to significantly degrade or enhance the compiler.

One caveat of using XP to develop on is that it does not support a host of new features introduced in Vista, 7 and now Windows 8. Microsoft makes a strenuous effort not to break existing apps, but they don't retroactively incorporate new features into a discontinued product. This is of less concern if you don't declare into Win32 at all, since RS abstracts most of these differences away, or doesn't implement any features in that area. If you plan on implementing features which make use of Win32 features not made available by RS, you may find that XP doesn't support the newer, better APIs for such features or (more rarely but not unheard of) Vista and/or 7/8 will have eliminated the API or deprecated it (for example, the entire WinMM API was deprecated in favor of a COM-based "CoreAudio" system starting in Windows Vista; the "Beep" function was eliminated in Windows Vista only to be restored in Windows 7, though implemented differently.)

An additional caveat is the vast differences in security enforcement between XP and newer versions. Vista may have sucked, but it was much more secure and Windows 7 improved upon it. You cannot rely, in Vista/7/8 as you did in Xp and earlier that the user is running with administrator rights nor, even if they are an administrator, that the privilege needed for a particular action is currently held and enabled for the user (and thus your app.) Generally speaking, though, if your app isn't writing/reading protected OS files/registry keys or files/keys not belonging to the user you won't bump into this wall.

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:59 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
DaveS wrote:
I switched from WIndows to OSX 6 or 7 years ago... and have not done much in Windows since. But now I have a project that I developed for OSX that might have a significant revenue income for me if I produce a Windows version... So I have a few questions for those of you who DO work in the windows world with RealStudio

1) I have an "older" PC running WinXP (2gig ram.. not sure the processor, but it is pre C2D). Is that good enough to work with?

Windows is very compatible between versions you should have no issues. I still use a Windows XP machine I built during the XP beta alongside my Win7 x64 machine and it works just fine.

DaveS wrote:
2) I have a Synology NAS in my network, and the Win box will be connected to it... I plan on having RealStudio for OSX on my MacPro (already there), and RealStudio for Win on the box mentioned above, with the project code stored on the NAS. So I can edit the code on the MAC, store it to the NAS, and compile it on either/both machines for testing purposes.

I do something similar between my Win and Linux boxes. I also used to do with with my G4 mini before it died.

DaveS wrote:
3) For OSX.. RS creates a single "App" bundle.. those I can manage and distribute. I have heard the RS for WIN creates a much more complex structure... Can someone give a brief description of what files are distrubited where, and how best to deploy to a customer (without buying expensive "installers")

It really isn't all that different. RS puts it in a folder with the support libs in a sub folder then depending on the application you could just zip it up or build an installer. As others suggested use Inno Setup it took all of 5 minutes to get my first project packaged up in a professional installer for free.

DaveS wrote:
4) Am I correct in assuming the RS for WIN includes/uses SQLite the same as for OSX?

Yes

DaveS wrote:
5) This particular project has no OSX declares, so I assume that 95% or more of the code should cross compile without issues? What about font differences? I know what OSX considers 14pt and what WIndows says is 14pt are not the same physical size. So will I have problems with form layout consistency?

You should have no compile issues and any font issues will be easier for you than the other way around as Windows tends to render fonts smaller so you may end up with more space available instead of less on your forms.

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Linux: RH EL6
Mac: Died in 2011 and took 2 months to notice.

RealStudio: 2012r2


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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:19 pm 
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If you haven't already, check out the remote debugger. It will let you develop on the Mac, but run/debug on Windows.

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Xojo, Inc.


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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:24 pm 
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I have heard mention of that... but have no clue how it works..... care to give a Readers Digest version?

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Dave Sisemore
iMac I7[2012], OSX Mountain Lion 10.8.3 RB2012r2.1
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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:39 am 
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Dave,

Yes you will want to Utilize the remote debugger Remote Debugger
Great tool and I use it heavily
Note that it is only available in pro and above (have not Idea what version you are using)

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:50 am 
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DaveS wrote:
I have heard mention of that... but have no clue how it works..... care to give a Readers Digest version?


Here's a blog post just for you:

Remote Debugging

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Xojo, Inc.


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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:58 am 
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Paul Lefebvre wrote:
DaveS wrote:
I have heard mention of that... but have no clue how it works..... care to give a Readers Digest version?


Here's a blog post just for you:

Remote Debugging


Can the rest of us read it? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:54 pm 
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briman wrote:
Can the rest of us read it? :lol:


NO! its just for ME :D


(well ok.... go ahead)

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Dave Sisemore
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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:31 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
briman wrote:
Can the rest of us read it? :lol:


NO! its just for ME :D


(well ok.... go ahead)


Remote Debugger with some RS version crash!

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 Post subject: Re: Help for a Switcher
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:46 am 
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the only thing to be aware of (as already stated), Windows 7 is more secure than xp. As long as you use the 'specialfolder folders' when you need to write anything to disk, then if it works in xp then it will most likely work in 7.

You could always download the preview of windows 8 and create a vm to test on as well. This is still free.

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