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 Post subject: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:20 am
Posts: 8
I just bought the product and am beginning to wish I hadn't - It would seem that there are no basic data tools such as datagrids or master and detail record functionality...
Please tell me I am wrong and that being an apple background product they just go by different names...

Also, the training is non-existent always looking at building a browser form... What's that all about? :(


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 4931
Location: San Diego, CA
You need FIVE things.... Databases, Recordsets, SQL, patience and imagination

RealStudio provides the first 3. You must be willing and able to handle the other two.

Is RealStudio the same as VB6/VB.NET.... thank goodness it is not. Anything (and I mean ANYTHING) you want to do with a programming language can be done with RealStudio..... Perhaps differently, more than likely easier (although not always)... But that is where those last two items come into play.

I have been in this industry a long long time...(can you say Visual Basic version 1).....

This forum will be the most helpful place you will find, as long as you are polite and courteous in you questions and comments.

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iMac I7[2012], OSX Mountain Lion 10.8.3 RB2012r2.1
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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:44 am 
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DaveS wrote:
You need FIVE things.... Databases, Recordsets, SQL, patience and imagination

RealStudio provides the first 3. You must be willing and able to handle the other two.

Is RealStudio the same as VB6/VB.NET.... thank goodness it is not. Anything (and I mean ANYTHING) you want to do with a programming language can be done with RealStudio..... Perhaps differently, more than likely easier (although not always)... But that is where those last two items come into play.

I have been in this industry a long long time...(can you say Visual Basic version 1).....

This forum will be the most helpful place you will find, as long as you are polite and courteous in you questions and comments.


Thank you for your reply Dave. I understand your point and I am eager to get started and use my imagination - Just can't find anywhere to get started - A good book on the basics will do. Also, I am not averse to third party widgets for data handling, etc. In relation to what I am used to (Alpha Five) it all seems a bit raw that's all.
In the meantime some advice about where to learn the basics about working with data would immediately help. I understand SQL, etc. so that won't be a problem. I just expected to see a common or garden data grid widget in the palette that you can then associate with a table in the database you identify with the project - not a lot to ask for I think... :?

Regards,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:32 am
Posts: 40
Location: Germany
Hello,
to get the basics with SQL I found this video very useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJpd6Fw ... w&index=15

See also the other Videos at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RealSoftwareVideo

Greetings,
Christian


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:48 am
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Location: Lenexa, KS
Quote:
I just expected to see a common or garden data grid widget in the palette that you can then associate with a table in the database you identify with the project - not a lot to ask for I think...


People coming from the Windows world of development (VB6, .NET, etc) often have this problem. I was there once, myself. You forget how much the COM system gives you. Real Software doesn't offer a full COM interface and has to deal with Linux and Mac OS where stuff like that just isn't very common.

If you're new to Real Studio, you might find our training videos helpful. We have over 100 videos and are at about 36 hours with over 6 hours in the free area. Check it out at http://www.bkeeney.com/RealStudioTraining/realstudiotraining.cgi

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A blog about being a Real Studio/Xojo developer at http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Thanks Christian and Bob - will check out the videos as suggested.

So Bob, are you saying that what I would expect as a standard data widget would have to be written in RB?

Regards,

Paul :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Another concept that VB is notorius for is DATA BINDING (ie... associating a control to the data table)

Real Studio has marked this (thank goodness) as a DEPRECATED feature, and it will be discontinued as part of the language in a future version. But note that Microsoft themselves are no longer advocating the use of control/data binding either.

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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:25 pm 
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pulsoft wrote:
So Bob, are you saying that what I would expect as a standard data widget would have to be written in RB?


I'm saying that data widgets (binding as Dave put it) depends on a mechanism that Real Studio is currently not supporting. I came from the VB6 world where we used the TrueDB grid and other controls from ComponentOne. Very nice controls that were 100% dependent upon ActiveX. There's no equivalent on the Mac or Linux worlds for ActiveX.

In my VB6 job we were so dependent on those controls and the exact why they bound data that we spent an awful lot of time mangling our code to fit their needs. In Real Studio it's up to you. That gives you freedom I never experienced in the VB6 world but at the same time your first few projects will be figuring out what works best for you as far as a coding method.

The default RB databases classes are very generic. Almost to the point of being TOO generic. After doing db projects for many years we implemented ActiveRecord for Real Studio and that speeds our development process. ActiveRecord is free for anyone to use. More information at http://www.bkeeney.com/rbinto/activerecord/. AR let's the compiler work for you and saves you from much of the tedious db coding.

We will soon be releasing a tool soon to generate the classes from the database you're designing with so you can import into your Real Studio project. This saves oodles of development time for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:31 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
Another concept that VB is notorius for is DATA BINDING (ie... associating a control to the data table)

Real Studio has marked this (thank goodness) as a DEPRECATED feature, and it will be discontinued as part of the language in a future version. But note that Microsoft themselves are no longer advocating the use of control/data binding either.


I'm glad to hear this. Now I know I'm on the right track in the way I handle the retrieval of fields from a table.

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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:26 am 
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Someone has just alerted me to this really negative review of Real Studio :

http://www.smoothpaygold.com/realbasic/review.html

Have I wasted my money?

Also, I didn't realise that you can only produce single user applications with the built in database.

Also, Why did they take my money when I have also been alerted to this link which apparently indicates that the product is free to use until you wish to commercialise...

http://www.realsoftwareblog.com/2012/06 ... anges.html

Answers on a postcard please :)


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:12 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
pulsoft wrote:
Someone has just alerted me to this really negative review of Real Studio :

http://www.smoothpaygold.com/realbasic/review.html

Have I wasted my money?

Also, I didn't realise that you can only produce single user applications with the built in database.

Also, Why did they take my money when I have also been alerted to this link which apparently indicates that the product is free to use until you wish to commercialise...

http://www.realsoftwareblog.com/2012/06 ... anges.html

Answers on a postcard please :)


Seems like you're going off on a tangent as it really has nothing to do with your initial question. I would have created a separate post for this.

Anyway, have you wasted your money? I don't know, only you can answer that.

In that negative review the author refuses to engage in any correspondence. Why?

My advice is stick with it for the time being.

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rs2012 r2.1 Windows 7.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:35 am 
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pulsoft wrote:
Also, Why did they take my money when I have also been alerted to this link which apparently indicates that the product is free to use until you wish to commercialise...
http://www.realsoftwareblog.com/2012/06/pricing-changes.html

That change don't apply until 2013r1 is released i believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:12 am 
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superjacent wrote:
pulsoft wrote:
Someone has just alerted me to this really negative review of Real Studio :

http://www.smoothpaygold.com/realbasic/review.html

Have I wasted my money?

Also, I didn't realise that you can only produce single user applications with the built in database.

Also, Why did they take my money when I have also been alerted to this link which apparently indicates that the product is free to use until you wish to commercialise...

http://www.realsoftwareblog.com/2012/06 ... anges.html

Answers on a postcard please :)


Seems like you're going off on a tangent as it really has nothing to do with your initial question. I would have created a separate post for this.

Anyway, have you wasted your money? I don't know, only you can answer that.

In that negative review the author refuses to engage in any correspondence. Why?

My advice is stick with it for the time being.


Point taken about the separate post - Re. data - the single user app - is that correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:32 am
Posts: 174
Location: Arkansas - USA
The built in database (RealSQLDatabase) only supports single users, but RS allows you to connect several database servers such as MySql, Postgresql, and several others for multi-user apps.

RS isn't the best RAD tool for every programming problem for sure, but if you want to cross-compile it is one of the best.

Did you waste your money? Only if you don't learn how to use it. If you take time to learn it I think you will find it a very useful programming tool and well worth the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Working with data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:21 am 
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jharris wrote:
The built in database (RealSQLDatabase) only supports single users, but RS allows you to connect several database servers such as MySql, Postgresql, and several others for multi-user apps.

RS isn't the best RAD tool for every programming problem for sure, but if you want to cross-compile it is one of the best.

Did you waste your money? Only if you don't learn how to use it. If you take time to learn it I think you will find it a very useful programming tool and well worth the money.


I am sorry, I have the personal version which cannot connect to other databases from what I can see.


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