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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:19 pm 
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I'm a little disappointed in the HTML report generated by Valentina 4. I'm no expert on html but I can tell it's not well formed and thought out and poorly done, IMO. In my exasperating testing today, if you generate a multipage report from it you will have issues printing the report from the HTMLViewer in Web Edition.

I'm sure that Ruslan will jump in and say everything is fixed in version 5 and there's no worries. Not sure what my options are now for Web Edition reporting because I am not jumping into beta testing for Valentina (again).

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A blog about being a Real Studio/Xojo developer at http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Bob Keeney wrote:
Not sure what my options are now for Web Edition reporting because I am not jumping into beta testing for Valentina (again).


Bob,

I wrote a web based project CRM application in RS, in which I rolled my own reporting module for pdf reports.

it uses the following logic:

1) export database data to xml file.
2) perform xml / xslt (the report template) transform to generate html file.
3) use wkhtmltopdf (http://madalgo.au.dk/~jakobt/wkhtmltoxdoc/wkhtmltopdf-0.9.9-doc.html) to convert from html to pdf.
4) present pdf file to user to download or open.

Is this a perfect solution? no.. but I have found that I have 95% complete control over the output of my reports in which the 5% that I do not have control of is not that big of a deal.

Once again, it depends on what type of information you are displaying.. I have found this solution to work well for my needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:11 am 
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Bob Keeney wrote:
I'm a little disappointed in the HTML report generated by Valentina 4. I'm no expert on html but I can tell it's not well formed and thought out and poorly done, IMO. In my exasperating testing today, if you generate a multipage report from it you will have issues printing the report from the HTMLViewer in Web Edition.

I'm sure that Ruslan will jump in and say everything is fixed in version 5 and there's no worries. Not sure what my options are now for Web Edition reporting because I am not jumping into beta testing for Valentina (again).


Hi Bob,

1) I cannot say it works before I don't know what exactly you did and how.

2) So you have prepared multi-page report using vstudio 4.9 ?
Then can you send to my email your .vsp file and database, which you did use for test as ZIP archive?

Also will be great if you provide some additional info:
* on which OS you run vstudio,
* which browser was used on your side
* make may be snap-shoots of where it is not well formed.

* Bob, what you mean with MULTI-PAGE report in browser?
Browsers show endless vertical page usually...

3) Also not clear to me is. You mention HTMLViewer in Web Edition ...
Does this means that you have used not only Vstudio, but also installed 4.9 V4RB plugin?
then made some test RB project, which use .vsp prepared by Vstudio, generate some HTML report (how exactly? in File?) then show it into HTMLViewer?

4) Only when you provide all this info to us, and you have it on hands as I understand, we will be able comment. Right?

5) You can not touch beta, but can you please
* describe what kind of reports you are going to build? May be existed PDFs as examples what you going to build
* what tasks you going to resolve
* which other report engines could do that good if any.

6) below Sky Stream talk about usage of PDF to show in browser. I should mention that our the most old customer of Valentina Reports, which use them in RB + PHP site also use only PDF generation. Yet 2 years ago they also have asked us provide PDFs with embedded XML, so data from db are hidden into generated PDF for future automatic extraction. They prefer PDF, because this is the most stable format for everywhere usage: to print, to show in browser, to send be email, just to read in viewer... But of course HTML also should be as best as possible.


P.S. Bob, thank you in advance for any materials you can provide to help us improve things. I hope this is as easy as "Compress folder and email".

P.S. May be you will prefer to get in more close contact by me (email, Skype, icq) and even our developers. We have provide access to Jaber chat of our team for some active and helpful developers (PHP, C++, ObjC, NET). When they have questions or want to talk they can do that at any time.

_________________
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:42 pm
Posts: 23
Hi,

Thank you all for all these interesting information! I am interested valentina reports, and this discussion helps to make a choice.

Matt, if you criticize software on a public forum, it is normal that the software publisher defends its software.

Bob, is there a way to display, in a single HTML page, multiple pages to print? I mean, is there a reliable solution to tell the printer to go to the next page at the end of each table?

Thank you

Olivier


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:48 am 
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Posts: 404
paxdo wrote:
is there a way to display, in a single HTML page, multiple pages to print? I mean, is there a reliable solution to tell the printer to go to the next page at the end of each table?


you can add in a page break. add this in your html code for where you need a new page to start:

<!--Page Break -->
<div style="page-break-after:always"></div>


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 3554
Location: Lenexa, KS
Ruslan,
Here's my problem, every time one of us brings up a problem you ask for more details. We are evaluating your product - we are not core users. We only have so much time to give to evaluating a product.

If I tell you the html isn't well formed then perhaps you should run a report and look at the generated html code yourself and run it through any of a dozen html utilities. You are the developer so I consider this to be your job - not mine. Why do I need to provide a database for you? I'm using client data that is not mine to give away. Don't you have the ability to create a 100 page html report and display it in Web Edition? I used your example as the basis for my own code.

My long term experience with you is that you spend an awful lot of time defending your product by blaming the users for doing things wrong. Perhaps coming up with better examples, better documentation, providing usable support forums, and so on will help new people understand how to use your product better.

I've said more than enough. Goodbye.

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Bob K.

A blog about being a Real Studio/Xojo developer at http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:42 pm
Posts: 23
Bob Keeney wrote:
Ruslan,
Here's my problem, every time one of us brings up a problem you ask for more details. We are evaluating your product - we are not core users. We only have so much time to give to evaluating a product.

If I tell you the html isn't well formed then perhaps you should run a report and look at the generated html code yourself and run it through any of a dozen html utilities. You are the developer so I consider this to be your job - not mine. Why do I need to provide a database for you? I'm using client data that is not mine to give away. Don't you have the ability to create a 100 page html report and display it in Web Edition? I used your example as the basis for my own code.

My long term experience with you is that you spend an awful lot of time defending your product by blaming the users for doing things wrong. Perhaps coming up with better examples, better documentation, providing usable support forums, and so on will help new people understand how to use your product better.

I've said more than enough. Goodbye.


Bob, this is exaggerated. Ruslan request details, but also provides detailed answers.

I used the database valentina long ago (I no longer use it for 7 or 8 years), and I can certify that Ruslan responds very quickly to requests for enhancements, bugs, etc.. And with great skill. The bugs are also corrected very quickly. it is rather rare ... Maybe it's changed, but in my case, my experience with valentina DB has been very satisfactory.

Olivier


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:29 am 
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Location: Lenexa, KS
Quote:
Bob, this is exaggerated.


No, it's not.

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Bob K.

A blog about being a Real Studio/Xojo developer at http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:32 am
Posts: 174
Location: Arkansas - USA
paxdo wrote:

Bob, this is exaggerated.


Not exaggerated - based on my experience.

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Windows 7 (RB Pro 2012R2.1) / Ubuntu 12.10 (RB Pro 2012R2)


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:35 pm
Posts: 37
Sky Stream

Can you post a little sample of your report generation method?

Thanks in advance


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:27 am
Posts: 404
georgelbs wrote:
Sky Stream

Can you post a little sample of your report generation method?

Thanks in advance


just posted the concept: http://forums.realsoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=44995


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 3554
Location: Lenexa, KS
I keep plugging away on my evaluation. I might have run into a further snag in using VReports. I can't get it to work on my Debian web server but the app quits right away with the server log showing plugin issues such as:

Runtime Error
Please report what caused this error along with the information below.
../../Common/plugin.cpp: 5982
Failure Condition: pluginEntryTable.GetEntry( entrypointName, out )
can't find plugin method Valentina.Init( CacheSize as integer, inMacSN as string

Other plugins are working fine and the Linux so library is there so no idea what's going on. Support email sent.

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Bob K.

A blog about being a Real Studio/Xojo developer at http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:18 am 
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Posts: 102
paxdo wrote:
Bob Keeney wrote:
Ruslan,
Here's my problem, every time one of us brings up a problem you ask for more details. We are evaluating your product - we are not core users. We only have so much time to give to evaluating a product.

If I tell you the html isn't well formed then perhaps you should run a report and look at the generated html code yourself and run it through any of a dozen html utilities. You are the developer so I consider this to be your job - not mine. Why do I need to provide a database for you? I'm using client data that is not mine to give away. Don't you have the ability to create a 100 page html report and display it in Web Edition? I used your example as the basis for my own code.

My long term experience with you is that you spend an awful lot of time defending your product by blaming the users for doing things wrong. Perhaps coming up with better examples, better documentation, providing usable support forums, and so on will help new people understand how to use your product better.

I've said more than enough. Goodbye.


Bob, this is exaggerated. Ruslan request details, but also provides detailed answers.
Olivier


Hi Bob,
Hi Oliver, thank you :-)

Bob, you not very fair in your first sentence. For example, to Matt I did answer very detailed, with snapshots and video. We have test his own reports, which he have sent us, we have show what was wrong and how to make it in the right way. Or I do lie here ???

I can explain detailed why I am asking questions from you. My questions are absolutely not because I try avoid exact answer and just delay in time.

1) VERSION, OS, BROWSER -- should we know this from you? this is big problem?

2) I have asked you: how exactly you have generate HTML report, Because exists TWO ways at least:
a) right from VStudio to Browser, not using RB + V4RB
b) from (RB+V4RB)

*** In your post 2 days ago you have say: "you will have issues printing the report from the HTMLViewer in Web Edition."
This sounds like you talk about 2b way, because REALstudio have HTMLViewer and WebAdition. Right?

*** But in yesterday post you say: "I keep plugging away on my evaluation."
This means you play with Valentina Studio only ... without REALstudio. So way 2a) ?

Excuse me, in what I should believe, Bob?

Besides, now you say that you have used some your existed DB. You even do not say what is this? SQLite? mySQL? Postgre?
You still think you have said MORE THAN ENOUGH info?


3) Today you have contact us using our Billets. (Thank you very much for this step!)

And few hours ago I did answer there, that right after your post about HTML issues on your side, we did total check of HTML generation and all and each controls. Yes, we have found that in 5.0 betas is not printed BarCode control and Ellipse. Will be fixed in the nearest days, at least BarCode. Nothing serious was not found. Layout in browser corresponds to one in the report designer and PDF output.

So please, be sure, we listen very carefully and we try also reproduce on our side.
But there are tons of combinations. I can tell story, that once, a user have two days told me how reproduce crash, I was not able.
Finally he have sent movie from his screen and bingo! I did use button to do action, he did use menu to do the same action.

BTW, after this, and after some talks with other teams, we tend to use video as much as possible, even inside of team.
Better one time to see, than 100 times to hear :-)


4) I want ensure and underline to everybody. We never try push away a customer.
In case when issue cannot be reproduced, we even setup remote connection to the customer computer to see what he do and how exactly.
IF somebody has fatal issues, please just contact us on OUR site, using OUR list, OUR Bug tracker, OUR online chats.
IF somebody is very busy on time, we can help even install Valentina on his computer using e.g. TeamViewer and show that it works ...
And we did not ask any payments for this ... I hope I will not get today 100 requests install to their computers :-)


5) About your linux question I also did answer in our Ticket system few hours ago.
In tickets you have mention that on MAC OS X it works fine for you, here on forum you did not mention this, but ok.


5a) For info of everybody on forum:

Valentina for REALbasic plugin, V4RB.rbx is not a trivial plugin.
It depends on set of DLLs ( vshared, vkernel, vclient, vreport, ... icu, )

All these DLLs are located in '/usr/local/lib/vcomponents' folder on OS X and Linux. And in 'Program Files/Paradigma/vcomponents' on Windows.

ADK installers install only current OS DLLs. To not have huge size of installers.
As result yes, you need yet install windows and/or linux installers to your win and linux machine.

So far most developers have agree this is okay, because it is hard image in developer, which just compile on OS X a windows app, and without testing it on some WIN machine send to users. He anyway will do testing on win computer, real or virtual.

P.S. I know that somebody know can claim ... What? I cannot produce win app on OSX ?? what a ... ??? But believe me, there are many reasons why things are such as they now. There was many discussions on Valentina lists during last 10+ years how to do things better. We did consider all possible variants. The current one may be not easiest to start with, but it is logical, powerful, consistent, and flexible.


Thank you for listening and understanding :)

_________________
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina reports - anyone have experience using them?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:23 am 
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Sky Stream wrote:
paxdo wrote:
is there a way to display, in a single HTML page, multiple pages to print? I mean, is there a reliable solution to tell the printer to go to the next page at the end of each table?


you can add in a page break. add this in your html code for where you need a new page to start:

<!--Page Break -->
<div style="page-break-after:always"></div>


I will send to this info to our guys to make sure they use this.
Thank you.

_________________
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina Server, Valentina for REALbasic, Valentina Reports, ...
http://www.paradigmasoft.com


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