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 Post subject: With - End With
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:49 pm
Posts: 78
Is there an equivalent to VB6's... With - End With

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Mark
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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:48 am
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Location: Lenexa, KS
No.

I did a quick search in Feedback and couldn't find it, but I'm sure there's a request in there for it. It comes up every now and then from former VB6 coders (like me).

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:52 am 
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Thanks Bob.
I tried searching, but With "End With" but got no results. I suspect it may have been too limited (or too much like search modifying terms) for the forums search engine?

I just started working for someone else last week (first time not working for myself in 18 years), and, since we are both relatively new to RS, we ordered a couple of memberships to your video training packages. Dealing with the frustration of switching from VB6 is a little trying at times, but I'm just trying to be in the frame of mind to accept a different (and limited) way of doing things. I just spent the past few days building an extensive multilingual format date/time function, beings as RS is so limited in that regard.

One wonders how a 12 year old piece of software (VB6) can surpass a new one (RS) in so many ways.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 4931
Location: San Diego, CA
With/End With would be (for me) a very popular addition...


But I'm sorry to violently disagree on one other statement you made

Quote:
One wonders how a 12 year old piece of software (VB6) can surpass a new one (RS) in so many ways.


RealStudio is lightyears beyond VB6 in more ways than I can count. Sure there are a few things that VB6 and VB.NET have
that RealStudio does not... But I will take RS over VB any day of the week..... and I programmed in VB from (v3 to v6)
and have the unfortunate requirement to use VB.NET at work. So I feel I am more than qualified to make this statement of opinion.

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Dave Sisemore
iMac I7[2012], OSX Mountain Lion 10.8.3 RB2012r2.1
Note : I am not interested in any solutions that involve custom Plug-ins of any kind


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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:49 pm
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Please keep in mind the phrase I used ... "in so many ways". I wasn't making an overall comparison statement by implying the VB6 was better in every way.

To clarify, there is basic functionality missing as well as very awkward usability issues (such as when debugging). My point being that a very old program like VB6 surpasses RS in these instances, and I can't understand why, given the length of time that's been available to at least match that sort of basic, and expected, functionality.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:32 pm 
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If you're jumping into Real Studio with both feet first, I HIGHLY recommend taking a look at the MonkeyBread Software plugins and the Einhugur plugins. Between those two, a lot of little deficiencies just go away.

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Bob K.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:22 pm
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Feedback Ref# for "With - End With" is 10055. Add to your Favourites.


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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:12 am 
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Posts: 188
actually, it's very simple to work around "with - end with" and in fact it doesn't even use that much more key strokes, so I don't see how it's any better. People just take for granted that if something has been done a certain way in the past, it must continue.
Change is "ok" sometimes :D
Honest

here's the VB:
With testObject
.Height = 100
.Text = "Hello, World"
.ForeColor = System.Drawing.Color.Green
End With
- keystrokes for overhead 23

here's the RS:
dim t as textfield=testOject
t.Height=100
t.Text= "Hello, World"
t.TextColor = Green // assuming you've defined this
- keystrokes for overhead 31

** Correction, the testObject in the VB example had to be declared before, so we shouldn't count the keystrokes of the declaration in the RS version, so guess what??? it's actually LESS keystrokes to do it "the RS way"
VB - 23
RS - 13


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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:36 am 
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It's not about keystrokes.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:41 am 
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ok, so, readability or convenience? the two versions are practically, visually, identical.
Sorry, but I'm still not convinced it's better in any way. It's just a different way of doing it. Break free from the MS chains that have bound you. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:18 am 
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That's ironic, given that having to name the object with each statement is, in fact, a binding chain. Whereas MS gave you the option to do it your way. So, to each their own.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
corpcon wrote:
So, to each their own.

I suppose so. The last languange I’ve used that supported With was Pascal and that must have been in the late seventies; I don’t remember having missed it ever since.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Quote:
I don’t remember having missed it ever since.


Most people coming from VB6 really miss it at first. Then there comes a time when they start 'getting' the way RB does things and stop trying to wish it was like VB6.

That's my opinion because that was the route I took. RB does many things better, some things about the same, and there are still a few things that VB6 was awesome at that RB still isn't very good at (debugger comes to mind).

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Bob K.

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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:44 am
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Bob Keeney wrote:
Quote:
I don’t remember having missed it ever since.


Most people coming from VB6 really miss it at first. Then there comes a time when they start 'getting' the way RB does things and stop trying to wish it was like VB6.

That's my opinion because that was the route I took. RB does many things better, some things about the same, and there are still a few things that VB6 was awesome at that RB still isn't very good at (debugger comes to mind).


Like many, I missed the with/end with for a while at first but now I'm fine with the way it is.

What I DO miss is the indent that comes with it. When I'm setting a zillion properties for something it was nice to have them all indented so when I'm scanning through code it leaps out. I suppose I could put it in a try/catch or "if 1=1" type hacky thing, but oh well.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: With - End With
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 71
I too missed the With...End With block at first. Then, when I started going back to VB6 to look at code I had already converted, it seemed much harder to read in long With / End With blocks. 12 years programming on VB6, then 18 months on RB. I'm getting used to it and finding most gaps can be filled. In fact, when I need to go back to VB6 to do some work, I occasionally catch myself asking, "Now why didn't VB do it this way?"

I will grant you that the RB debugger is light years *behind* what VB6 offers. The variable window in RB is a brute, I usually just throw up a msgbox. Not that it is the way you are supposed to debug, but rather my sanity won't allow me to venture far into the Variable window in RB, way too frustrating to find anything (I hope you are really paying attention here, RS, it is way worst then anything else in the RB IDE, in my opinion). I really miss the immediate window, edit-and-continue, hovering over a variable to get a value in VB6.

But all-in-all, RB can replace VB6, has much better OOP capabilities,and the first time you take a project you have built in Windows and fire it up on the Mac, it is a real "I get it moment".

-Merv


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