RB2012r2.1 consistent error.

Paul Lefebvre · **Posted:** Thu May 30, 2013 1:59 pm

WaltM wrote:

I must say this is disappointing. Many users have a wealth of programs built for XP and many users have clients using XP and these people,for their reasons, will not upgrade from XP, (they are in the thousands, including businesses). Xojo has deprecations and/or exclusions which pretty much means users will have to go back to 2011 or earlier since 2.1 was supposed to be such a big bug fix. And what of the future for users who have clients who may return one or two years after their last purchase of software or consultation?

As mentioned before, you can build your apps for XP just fine so you can continue to support these users. There is only an issue with Real Studio (the IDE itself) running on some XP installations. The easiest workaround is to use a newer version of Windows to do the development.

WaltM wrote:

As for Microsoft's assertion that this was an XP issue, I am a little confused, and skeptical. The machine that I have RS installed on now is running XP Pro. This was originally a Windows 98 machine but I upgraded to XP and went to Pro because Pro was, among other things, supposed to have better memory mangement. I also had another machine,( different brand ), with 2 gigs or ram running XP Home. These two machines had just about every imaginable type of software running on them from paint programs, ray-tracing programs, database programs, batch processing programs that have had the computers running full-tilt for four and five days, software development, and more. Throughout all of this, the only time any programs crashed were "dll hell" issues when I wasn't paying sufficient attention, until I installed Real Studio. Now this system crashes continuously. I should also point out that while pushing the machine with XP Home and running a multi-threaded dll I developed with PowerBasic I actually fried the motherboard but then nothing would run. So, from 1998 to now, the only software that keeps crashing on this cludge of a system I keep going is Real Studio.

I don't have the specific details regarding the memory issue. Certainly XP had better memory management than Windows 98, but you are still talking ancient history here. XP was first released in 2001.

timhare · **Posted:** Thu May 30, 2013 2:09 pm

Note that it is only an issue with running the IDE on XP. Your built apps should run fine (unless you're building something as massive as the IDE) so your clients can continue to run XP for a long time. You just shouldn't try to do your development on it any more.

J.Hansen · **Joined:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:20 am **Posts:** 84

Paul Lefebvre wrote:

Not won't. We can't fix the issues with the IDE on XP, because it is an XP issue. Which oddly doesn't happen for all XP installations. But yes, built apps are supported on XP.

Of course, I don't recommend using XP for anything, let alone software development! Windows 7 is quite nice. Windows 8 is awkward, but improved with a few utilities such as Classic Shell. Windows 8.1 looks like it could be quite good.

Sometimes you are forced to use XP as you have bought some applications in the past, that's only running on Windows XP and the company don't exist anymore. And if you have to redesign the application to windows 7 or windows 8 you might have to pay another 50k Euro.

A friend of mine who is working for VmWare told me that; some of the windows bugs are fixed within the VmWare environment. So if you have a need to test your RS application within Windows XP. It might be better to run it within VmWare virtual environment.

Paul Lefebvre · **Posted:** Thu May 30, 2013 2:30 pm

J.Hansen wrote:

Paul Lefebvre wrote:

Not won't. We can't fix the issues with the IDE on XP, because it is an XP issue. Which oddly doesn't happen for all XP installations. But yes, built apps are supported on XP.

Of course, I don't recommend using XP for anything, let alone software development! Windows 7 is quite nice. Windows 8 is awkward, but improved with a few utilities such as Classic Shell. Windows 8.1 looks like it could be quite good.

Sometimes you are forced to use XP as you have bought some applications in the past, that's only running on Windows XP and the company don't exist anymore. And if you have to redesign the application to windows 7 or windows 8 you might have to pay another 50k Euro.

A friend of mine who is working for VmWare told me that; some of the windows bugs are fixed within the VmWare environment. So if you have a need to test your RS application within Windows XP. It might be better to run it within VmWare virtual environment.

If you are forced to use XP, using it in a VM makes the most sense. In fact, didn't Microsoft include XP Mode (based on Virtual PC) with Vista/7 to do exactly this?

I only occasionally run XP using VMware Fusion and I've not noticed the IDE issue. So maybe they do tweak something there.

WaltM · **Joined:** Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:59 pm **Posts:** 12

Paul Lefebvre wrote:

J.Hansen wrote:

Paul Lefebvre wrote:

Not won't. We can't fix the issues with the IDE on XP, because it is an XP issue. Which oddly doesn't happen for all XP installations. But yes, built apps are supported on XP.

Of course, I don't recommend using XP for anything, let alone software development! Windows 7 is quite nice. Windows 8 is awkward, but improved with a few utilities such as Classic Shell. Windows 8.1 looks like it could be quite good.

Sometimes you are forced to use XP as you have bought some applications in the past, that's only running on Windows XP and the company don't exist anymore. And if you have to redesign the application to windows 7 or windows 8 you might have to pay another 50k Euro.

A friend of mine who is working for VmWare told me that; some of the windows bugs are fixed within the VmWare environment. So if you have a need to test your RS application within Windows XP. It might be better to run it within VmWare virtual environment.

If you are forced to use XP, using it in a VM makes the most sense. In fact, didn't Microsoft include XP Mode (based on Virtual PC) with Vista/7 to do exactly this?

I only occasionally run XP using VMware Fusion and I've not noticed the IDE issue. So maybe they do tweak something there.

So, before I start adding virtual machines to the load would I be able to have 2.1 and Xojo installed as two separate entities on the same machine running, ( not necessarily simultaneously), under say, Windows7?

Paul Lefebvre · **Posted:** Fri May 31, 2013 11:42 am

WaltM wrote:

So, before I start adding virtual machines to the load would I be able to have 2.1 and Xojo installed on the same machine running, ( not necessarily simultaneously), under say, Windows7?

Yes, absolutely. I do that all the time.

WaltM · **Joined:** Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:59 pm **Posts:** 12

Paul Lefebvre wrote:

WaltM wrote:

So, before I start adding virtual machines to the load would I be able to have 2.1 and Xojo installed on the same machine running, ( not necessarily simultaneously), under say, Windows7?

Yes, absolutely. I do that all the time.

Well thank you Paul. An acceptable solution to the legacy issue. I have a Windows7 machine with 16 gigs of ram waiting for Xojo.

I hope everyone who has likewise concerns can now at least deal with the problem.

WaltM

willgonz · **Joined:** Thu May 13, 2010 7:27 pm **Posts:** 341

I have been dealing with this issue on a one of my XP Machines. I found out if I do the following I can get it to not crash.

Save
in my code put a line that will fail like dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug
The debugger says dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl is unknown.
Delete dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug

No crash. I then do it every time the same way. It sucks but this machine I dev on can't be upgraded past Win XP, company policy.

WaltM · **Joined:** Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:59 pm **Posts:** 12

willgonz wrote:

I have been dealing with this issue on a one of my XP Machines. I found out if I do the following I can get it to not crash.

Save
in my code put a line that will fail like dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug
The debugger says dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl is unknown.
Delete dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug

No crash. I then do it every time the same way. It sucks but this machine I dev on can't be upgraded past Win XP, company policy.

Very interesting. And I still stand by my earlier posts about keeping my old dinosaur running.

J.Hansen · **Joined:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:20 am **Posts:** 84

WaltM wrote:

willgonz wrote:

I have been dealing with this issue on a one of my XP Machines. I found out if I do the following I can get it to not crash.

Save
in my code put a line that will fail like dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug
The debugger says dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl is unknown.
Delete dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug

No crash. I then do it every time the same way. It sucks but this machine I dev on can't be upgraded past Win XP, company policy.

Very interesting. And I still stand by my earlier posts about keeping my old dinosaur running.

Still 23.25 percent XPs are connecting to the internet. http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthl ... 201304-bar

WaltM · **Joined:** Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:59 pm **Posts:** 12

J.Hansen wrote:

WaltM wrote:

willgonz wrote:

I have been dealing with this issue on a one of my XP Machines. I found out if I do the following I can get it to not crash.

Save
in my code put a line that will fail like dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug
The debugger says dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl is unknown.
Delete dfjsdfjdfjklsdfjkl
Save
Debug

No crash. I then do it every time the same way. It sucks but this machine I dev on can't be upgraded past Win XP, company policy.

Very interesting. And I still stand by my earlier posts about keeping my old dinosaur running.

Still 23.25 percent XPs are connecting to the internet. http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthl ... 201304-bar

When you can troll the Microsoft site and find a phrase like, "We know you love Windows XP", you know Microsoft is exasperated at not being able to move people at will.

XP is very efficient for a whole range of tasks and that's why people still prefer to use it. Some people obviously have some crash issues but my own have only been with Real Studio.

Whatever else can be said of Microsoft, they understand the legacy issue, and the cost of ignoring it.

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RB2012r2.1 consistent error.