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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:19 am 
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I hear you, and respect the issue. I just have a lot of faith in the Pro users to continue providing generous support to everyone. You have Tim, Matt, and many others that are clearly way beyond the questions they answer (please don't take that as condescension), and I strongly suspect they'll continue to do so. Not to elevate myself, but I know I will filter out the unanswered threads to make sure no one's going unhelped.

What I do appreciate about the NUG (presently the "Pro forum" of sorts), is that the topics often elevate to a very educational level as people who specialize in their areas engage in uninterrupted discussions. Sometimes it's almost like reading an article, which is great.

Part of what's made RS solid in the past is the strong, tight nit user base, and I don't think that's going anywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:20 am 
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Jason_Adams wrote:
The Pro Forum sounds fine to me, especially since non-pro users will be able to read the posts for educational purposes. It's not like the Pro users will stop using the rest of the forum — many use both the NUG and forum, presently.

Frankly, I think the subject is being over-thought. ;)


What you are missing is the effect of a free IDE. At first it won't be much... but in a year or so it will likely be very significant effect on signal to noise for teh rest of us...

Secondly it changes the dynamic and if new Pro subscribers come into the community they will not have experienced the way the community was and will be more likely to stick to the pro Channel.

Exclusivity fosters a very different dynamic. It's human nature.

Also not being able to ask or answer questions there will limit diminish the usefulness to experienced users who don't have pro subscriptions.

As i said in the short run it won't change things much... In the longer term IMO it definitely will.

Also right now the new forum software (not sure if I can post what it is) does NOT allow reading channels without being able to post to them. For that to happen the software would have to be modified to support it. BTW that software is not being developed by Xojo Inc. though the are helping to the support development.

Xojo Inc. of course is free to do what they want... but I do wonder (as with some aspects of the new IDE) if they have really though through all the potential consequences of the changes.

- karen


Last edited by Karen on Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:22 am 
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:wink: Completely Agree with DaveS - Hit the nail right on the head

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:24 am 
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DaveS wrote:
Then Management decided that a "MEMBERS ONLY" discussion area should be created, and it was. Paying members rarely went to the Public discussion area, leaving non-members questions about the organization unanswers (ie. they were ignored), and they began discussing technical issues either in the Members Only area, or via private chat sessions, again leaving potential new members largely ignored.

This has been a major contributing factor to the membership of that organization not growing like it has in years past (sure its not the ONLY one, but the only one publicly commented on)


I've seen that dynamic play out in other types of venues as well.

- Karen


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:44 am 
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I say this is being over-thought too, and the scenarios being proposed don't jive with the past behavior of the users.

Look, I never, ever, come here for help. If I need advice, I post it on the NUG, but I do come here to offer the benefit of my experience where I can to help grow the community, and nobody makes me do that. When I look around, I see plenty of people who do the same, and I see the engineers from Xojo offering their insights. Frankly, all I see happening in the new forum is that the people who don't use the NUG will post their questions in the Pro forum instead, or maybe they won't knowing that they would be limiting their responses.

I just don't see this having a big impact on the community, and I think there is needless hand-wringing over things they may never come to pass. (Not that we've ever seen that before — remember when they switched over to the current licensing model?) Some in this thread also assume that things are set in stone when Xojo has always been about changing with the times. If they see that the community is fracturing, I have complete faith that they will make the "Pro" forum accessible to more than just the Enterprise-equivalent users. Remember, when they were going to shut down the NUG, they reversed course not because they were faced with some lawsuit or something, but because they realized it would be best for their users, and it didn't take them long.

I'm continually amazed that a company that has earned a lot of good will can never seem to cash in on any of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:50 am 
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Will Xojo allow the following

1 inline assembler
2 create dll or so files
3 Create ActiveX controls
4 Create Type Libraries

Most modern languages now support this so hoping
this will be included in the release. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:53 am 
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None of that is in the first release.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:11 am 
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Are there any new controls for 1st release?

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:44 am 
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ktekinay wrote:
Look, I never, ever, come here for help. If I need advice, I post it on the NUG, but I do come here to offer the benefit of my experience where I can to help grow the community, and nobody makes me do that.


I used to only use the NUG but then switched to both - though still favoring the NUG.

Historically the NUG has tended to be more Mac centric and this forum more Windows centric (because of the now departed Aaron?) so if the my question is more Windows oriented than OSX, I will post here.

I think the community is as it is because of how REAL nurtured it. I think changing something so basic about how REAL manages the community will slowly change the community in a way that will not be obvious at first, but will become hard to reverse. As i said, I think that is due to human nature.


Last edited by Karen on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:17 pm 
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NUG will go, current forum will go and it's simply if you want to be in the club then it's gonna cost yer.! simple as....

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Community is important. However a portion of the community still uses older versions and a great deal of the debates are just whether renewing is beneficial or not.

What they need is more paying customers. If this new pricing scheme fails and they don't get the paying customers they want/need then how much community there is won't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Other than a new IDE and some bug fixes what else am I getting for my money with XOJO?

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:55 pm 
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pjzedalis wrote:
Community is important. However a portion of the community still uses older versions and a great deal of the debates are just whether renewing is beneficial or not.

What they need is more paying customers. If this new pricing scheme fails and they don't get the paying customers they want/need then how much community there is won't matter.


The new pricing is new to us. However, other development tools have successfully used very similar models. I'm confident the new pricing will not only work, but work far better than the current model. One of the things that stops people from buying is not being sure what to buy. The new model is very simple. People know what kind of app (web, desktop, mobile) they plan to build. So making the pricing based on that simplifies purchasing. And not requiring a purchase to really find out if it's right for them or not will create more users.

So let's not assume the sky is falling, because it's not. As for the community, I believe the new forum will actually bring the community together far more than it ever has been before. One big reason is that the new forum has excellent email notification capabilities that I believe will result in more NUG-only users spending time on the new forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:59 pm 
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@gp

Other than a new IDE and some bug fixes what else am I getting for my money with XOJO?

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:14 pm 
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p0wn3d wrote:
Other than a new IDE and some bug fixes what else am I getting for my money with XOJO?


What you always got with Real Software's subscription based model.
If you're content with the last release that you're using, don't continue to subscribe.

I don't understand what you're angry about. Nothing changed.


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