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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:57 am 
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Ooops, didn't see that the blog mentioned that the compiler wasn't ready.. Sorry about that.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:59 am 
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Karen wrote:
lukus001 wrote:
I honestly expect iOS and 64bit desktop apps will be sold as additional licenses, and for me that'll probably be the cause of me leaving.


iOS will be an additional license... but i would bet my house on that NOT being the case for 64 bit.

- Karen



Thinking about it , it has to make sense for Xojo to charge on a per target basis.
Actually it's a little surprising to me that they have lumped Windows/Mac/linux into a single license.
I guess it shows their opinion of the future.
Windows + Mac + linux = Web = iOS = Android?

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Remember that Windows/Linux/OSX share a common code base. WE was completely different. iOS is even more different.


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Good point. And Android (if that's ever introduced) will be different still.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:05 pm 
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timhare wrote:
Remember that Windows/Linux/OSX share a common code base. WE was completely different. iOS is even more different.


ktekinay wrote:
Good point. And Android (if that's ever introduced) will be different still.


Mac OS X (Cocoa) and iOS (Cocoa Touch) are very closely related and are very similar.

I would think more similar than Mac OS X to Windows OS.


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:35 pm 
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J.Sh3ppard wrote:
timhare wrote:
Remember that Windows/Linux/OSX share a common code base. WE was completely different. iOS is even more different.


ktekinay wrote:
Good point. And Android (if that's ever introduced) will be different still.


Mac OS X (Cocoa) and iOS (Cocoa Touch) are very closely related and are very similar.

I would think more similar than Mac OS X to Windows OS.

No, this isn't really true. Cocoa Touch and Cocoa are similar in the same way Desktop and Web projects are similar. You'll still use classes like Dictionary and Timer, but the controls are completely different. Cocoa uses NSButton, Cocoa Touch uses UIButton, and they're not related to each other.

So I would argue that Cocoa is more similar to Windows than Cocoa Touch, from a UI perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Thom McGrath wrote:
No, this isn't really true. Cocoa Touch and Cocoa are similar in the same way Desktop and Web projects are similar. You'll still use classes like Dictionary and Timer, but the controls are completely different. Cocoa uses NSButton, Cocoa Touch uses UIButton, and they're not related to each other.

So I would argue that Cocoa is more similar to Windows than Cocoa Touch, from a UI perspective.



Hi Thom, thanks for the reply.

I'm not talking about the REAL Studio / XOJO way of coding a Cocoa, WE or iOS app.

I'm talking about the actual frameworks Cocoa and Cocoa Touch and using Xcode and objective C.

If you can code a Cocoa desktop app in Objective C in Xcode, you should also be able to code an iOS Cocoa touch app as they are very similar. The classes/frameworks you would use would be different but similar.

I am not an expert but I have poked around from time to time and to me they are similar.

I have no idea how REAL Studio / XOJO iOS is. I have never seen any classes or code for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:15 pm 
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J.Sh3ppard wrote:
Hi Thom, thanks for the reply.

I'm not talking about the REAL Studio / XOJO way of coding a Cocoa, WE or iOS app.

I'm talking about the actual frameworks Cocoa and Cocoa Touch and using Xcode and objective C.

If you can code a Cocoa desktop app in Objective C in Xcode, you should also be able to code an iOS Cocoa touch app as they are very similar. The classes/frameworks you would use would be different but similar.

I am not an expert but I have poked around from time to time and to me they are similar.

I have no idea how REAL Studio / XOJO iOS is. I have never seen any classes or code for it.

You and I are talking along very similar lines.

What I mean is that under Cocoa, the button class is NSButton. Under Cocoa Touch, the button class is UIButton. But both use NSDictionary for their dictionary class. You can share logic, but not UI. This is exactly the same thing we do with Desktop vs Web projects. Both use the Dictionary class, but Desktop uses PushButton and Web uses WebButton. So you can reuse skills and code, but not user interface.

In terms of user interface, Cocoa and Win32 are more similar to each other than Cocoa and Cocoa Touch. Cocoa Touch has a radically different tab panel. It has a navigation controller which none of the desktop APIs have anything even remotely similar to. That's all I mean. You can take a Mac window and create a Windows window pretty easily, they're very similar. But creating an iOS view from a Mac window is pretty much an impossibility, they controls and their usage aren't even remotely similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Will Xojo include a new PlugIns SDK?


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:57 pm 
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What's the chance of getting an option for the XOJO inspector..a user friendly version or the bling bling style?

That thing is way too scary at the moment.

Kuzey

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:30 pm 
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I hate to bump this thread but I wanted to give some "outsider's" opinion.

Quick background: Years ago I got the free VB6 to Standard trade-up option. I played around with RealBasic Std to see if it was a good alternative to VB6 (and something to port my VB6 apps to.) I saw potential but it wasn't quite there yet. I ended up just moving to C# which is now my primary language (and other MS technologies that like Silverlight, ASP.NET, SSIS, .NET Desktop apps, etc.) I've still been planning on getting back into writing my own products to sell but I want cross-platform apps. I got Revolution (now LiveCode) and saw some nice things but I couldn't "think" productively in their unique language (lack of tutorials at the time didn't help, either.) Also there's PureBasic which I have respect for but it's not quite my cup of tea. Anyways, periodically I've monitored Real Software to see where its headed with hoped it will one day meet my needs (since the RealBasic language seemed more appealing than the other options.) Flash forward to today.

I think the idea of the free IDE is actually a good one. Having the ability to utilize everything suits me perfectly. It will give me a chance to develop my ideas and if they pan out (i.e. the language and its framework doesn't become a serious roadblock) then purchasing a license is perfectly fine to me. If I find it doesn't work for me I can uninstall it (or perhaps find it is good for somethings and not others and decide whether it justifies a purchase.)

The name change to XOJO is irrelevant to me and the licensing model is fine for a professional development environment. (Although I wonder why compiling to console apps isn't free. That has me scratching my head.)

I wanted to comment on the bug issue. All development environments have them. Especially the more complex ones. Look at other forums for other languages and you'll see similar complaints. I have been working with Visual Studio and other Microsoft technologies for many years and you learn to just to live with them. I have frequent Visual Studio crashes (I am currently using 2012 but still do some projects in 2010 and 2008) and it took until Silverlight 5 to fix several issues with Silverlight only for Microsoft to dump it (that angers me since we are still developing a huge internal Business web app with it.) My team (I'm a Systems Architect) have come across many obscure framework bugs in Microsoft and 3rd party companies that become severe headaches for us. I can tell you 3rd party control libraries like Telerik have tons that take sometimes years to get fixed (if ever!) The question is, are there reasonable workarounds to these bugs in exchange for ease of use and increased functionality in most other areas? I've developed long enough to use workarounds when needed. It's not Utopia but it is part of this job.

Topic change: Is there a good grid component for XOJO yet? Will XOJO make it easy for me to create custom controls? I do not mind creating my own as needed. Years ago I had created a complex hierarchical grid control along with others for my company and I don't mind doing it again for this language if the proper support is there.


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Quote:
Will XOJO make it easy for me to create custom controls?


It always has been easy to create custom controls for RealStudio/Xojo.... 1000x easier than it is do to so for VB

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Thanks, Dave. I think this was something not possible with the Standard version? Anyways, that brings up another positive for the IDE and runtime being free is that I can play around with these things without limit.

Some might have the fear that the IDE being free is only going to appeal to new hobbyists and dabblers but it will also attract professionals like myself to give this an honest try (I find that 30 day trials run out too fast for me which is why this new format is very appealing to me.)


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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:00 pm 
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It better be possible with the Standard version, as that is what I've been using for years now, and have developed numerous custom controls... many of which are posted on this very forum

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 Post subject: Re: Important XOJO questions.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:06 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
It better be possible with the Standard version, as that is what I've been using for years now, and have developed numerous custom controls... many of which are posted on this very forum

Thanks. Back when I tried the standard version that wasn't something that concerned me. I was more looking to move some VB6 apps to RB but the dependance on several ActiveX controls just made it too difficult (of course this was several years ago so my memory of everything I tried is lacking.)


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